MD, DO, NP, DC, OD -- Who deserves the title PCP?

Specialties NP

Published

our professional scope of practice asserts that our role is to assess, diagnose, and treat in health and illness - head to toe, physical and behavioral.

from assessing, diagnosing, treating - diabetes, thrombosis, heart disease, infection, emphysema, hep c, hiv, etc, to rendering prenatal care, and preventative care - we are primary care providers. we make life and death decisions each day with our patients in managing disease - thrombosis management and prevention; hep c management; hiv management, heart disease and cva management; women's health - yet we are given less legitimacy in the social security act and cms section 410.20 than a chiropractor or optometrist.

i have nothing against chiropractic physicians mind you, but take a look at chiropractic.

cannot prescribe - not even an aspirin

procedures? - scant more than "moist heat";

assessment - can't even look into your ear according to their scope of practice

educational requirements? - a bachelors degree?, nope - about a year and a half of college study (90 credits), a 2.5 gpa, and 3 yrs of study at a chiropractic school.

how do chiropractors see themselves? go to http://schools.naturalhealers.com/lifewest/

chiropractic is a total-body healthcare system, and not a method of pain management. as a gatekeeper for direct access to the health delivery system, the responsibilities of the doctor of chiropractic as a primary care clinician include wellness promotion, health assessment, diagnosis, and the chiropractic management of the patient's health care needs. when indicated, the doctor of chiropractic may also co-manage, consult with, or refer to other health care providers

optometry - about the same. 65 college credit hours (a year and change), 2.5 gpa, a 4 yr program. -- then - slit lamp, snellen, better or worse, eyeglasses or contacts? see you in two years.

that's all fine. but, here's the rub. the chiropractor and optometrist - according to section 1861®(1) of the ssa,and cms sec. 410.20 -- are designated a physician with all of the privileges and honors of that professional designation.

the apn? nope. even though our scope of practice is much, much broader; our responsibility and liability - far greater. yet we are still treated as hand-maids, and put in our place as second class providers - the extenders, the mid-levels. none of us treat mid-way; perform half of a procedure; help the patient heal only half the way through a disease.

does any other primary care provider treat heart disease more or differently than you as a provider treat heart disease? does the physician carry more responsibility or liability? no. a pcp is a pcp. and god bless all of us, md, do, apn.

there is no comparison.the nurse practitioner's contribution to the health of our nation is every bit as important as the md, or do, and far above that of the dc or od. in the clinic we shoulder the responsibilities and liabilities - every one of our actions or inactions as a provider -- every moment we spend with a patient is legally ours to bear alone....

yet how many times have you been told - sorry, we need a physicians signature on that... you can't order that - it has to be ordered by a physician. we can't send that to you - we have to send it to the physician. sorry, we only credential physicians.

am i the only apn that feels a little bewildered and disgusted by this?

i have no innate yearning or desire to be called a physician mind you, its not an ego thing. but what i do have is a desire for, is to be respected for my role as a primary care provider by hospitals, insurers, labs, etc, so that i can do my job.

why i'm writing this.

as health care and our roles evolve, i believe that it is our responsibility to lobby for the advancement of our professional role, and with that updates to the ssa and cms sec. 410.20, two of the main documents that define the apn to other professionals. this is critical so that other professionals will not be confused about our role, our education, our abilities, and our responsibilities to our patients.

we regularly talk about fighting battles in my home state of tennessee, but are we only treating the symptoms of our professional legislative, political, and administrative woes? - shouldn't we also be addressing the root problems from which most of these arise - such as our absence from ssa 1861®(1)and cms sec. 410.20.

it may be time for each individual apn to write, call, or otherwise encourage other apn's as well as our advocates at ana, and our legislators to argue in favor of apn pcp's inclusion in cms sec. 410.20 and ssa 1861®(1).

because as the role of the nurse practitioner continues to evolve in response to changing societal and health care needs, so should the ssa and other government acts that define us to the nation.

social security act 1861

http://www.ssa.gov/op_home/ssact/title18/1861.htm

so. if you agree, take a moment and write someone. don't sit back and do nothing. :rotfl:change happens because of you. :) write a short note to your local chapter of ana, the national ana, george bush, your senators and your representatives and voice your desire for an updated cms sec. 410.20 and ssa 1861®(1) to help apn's across the nation do their job. thanks gang. http://www.firstgov.gov/contact/elected.shtml

respectfully,

r. martin

family nurse practitioner, chief manager and primary care provider

campbell station primary care associates

11541 kingston pike, ste 101

knoxville, tn 37922

.... . . . . ..kk. . .

What does that have to do with anything. I know what optometrists ophthalmologists and opticians are and do. Optometrists diagnose diseases of the eye. they treat diagnosed diseases of the eye. It only takes two years to be an Optician. it takes 8 yrs to be an optometrist. They are indeed Primary Care Physicians. I understand that NP's diagnose some illnesses and treat some diseases. but they are still nurses. I'm aware that optometrist don't attend medical school but they are Primary Care Physicians. You obviously don't know what an Optometrist actually does. An optician prescribes glasses, an Optometrist DIAGNOSES AND TREATS DISEASES of the eye. An Ophthalmologist performs surgery of the eye. What you see in wal-mart is not a true reflection of an Optometrist. They are indeed Physicians in every sense of the word. You can't just go to school for two years and go to Optometry School. You have to have a BS/BA degree. You have to take Medical School prerequisites. You have to be extremely competitive.

B**LS**T optometrist are physicians. They serve a purpose but no way are they PCP. They can provide primary VISION care only. They can't treat my cold, give a pap or anything else! Optometrists may treat some eye disease but they are limited and this is not allowed in every state. NP's also have to have a BS plus experience. And it is also competitive. Many pharmacists have PharmD degrees just like optometrists have doctor of Optometry degrees but that does not make them a physician. My childrens godfather has a doctor of theology but no one would say he is a physician. No nurse is "just a nurse." And I do know what the difference is between the three. But you cannot be a physician in this country unless you attend MEDICAL (not optometry or chiropractic) school. And so what if you need a bs/ba to get into optometry school. You also need one to get into law school. And they get a Juris doctrate. But they are still not physicians.

Specializes in ICU.

Reminder - NO personal attacks!!

Hopefully my healthcare coverage is never so bad that I would need to rely on an optometrist to diagnose and treat potential eye diseases.

Just to get back on the original topic, I think there is some validity to the argument that NPs should receive more recognition for the large responsibility and importance of the job.

I went to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics website (http://www.bls.gov/oes/2003/may/oes290000.htm) and sure enough, there are no Nurse Practitioner statistics nor even an occupational listing. There is however a occupational listings for all the docs, including chiropracty and optometry. There are also occupational listings for PAs, RNs, LPNs, and surgical techs. Hey, even massage therapists have a US occupational listing with goverment statistics. For some strange reason, NPs are invisible to the US government. This seems like a valid issue that needs to be addressed.

Specializes in Emergency/Anaesthetics/PACU.
Hopefully my healthcare coverage is never so bad that I would need to rely on an optometrist to diagnose and treat potential eye diseases.

Just to get back on the original topic, I think there is some validity to the argument that NPs should receive more recognition for the large responsibility and importance of the job.

So you never want to "rely" (due to lack of money) on an optometrist wiith seemingly mediocre eduction/experience (ie. no medical degree) to diagnose and treat potential eye disease yet you would "rely" on a NP (who is also NOT a physician, no matter how much they want to) to diagnose and treat other medical problems and illnesses?

I agree with ep71.... reeks of hypocrisy to me...

Specializes in Emergency/Anaesthetics/PACU.
A optometrist is not a MD and is NO WHERE CLOSE to being one. On the other hand NP's are skilled medical professionals. I see a NP and she can do most things, prescribe meds and order the same tests as a PCP can. When my infant was ill and in the ER he saw a NP. Don't kid yourself, chiropractors or optometrists are nowhere near an MD or a NP. :angryfire

NP's have a BSN followed by a MSN. That is a minimum of six years of education. Plus, they have to have at least one years experience in nursing. And most schools want more than that.

NP can prescribe meds and orders tests... MOST things... ie. most things a MD would normally do... because a NP is quasi-physician... to use the term " wannabe doctor" may be a little to close to the bone for a few reading this thread....

And optometrists and chiropractors are no where near MD's and NP you say? I would like the opinions of the medical fraternity as to the rank of NP's... I'm sure they wouldn't be sitting up on the pedestal along side MD's where you have so inappropriately put them.... with 1 year of nursing experience and a non-medical masters degree....

I have said it before... if you want to be a physician go to medical school... if not stop trying to be something your not...

PS. I would be curious to know who would be first to jump up and down and instigate a law suit if any misdiagnoses occurred by a *shock horror* NP?

So you never want to "rely" (due to lack of money) on an optometrist wiith seemingly mediocre eduction/experience (ie. no medical degree) to diagnose and treat potential eye disease yet you would "rely" on a NP (who is also NOT a physician, no matter how much they want to) to diagnose and treat other medical problems and illnesses?

I agree with ep71.... reeks of hypocrisy to me...

If you're confused about something I said, I'd recommend first asking a question rather than draw on a simplistic conclusion that suites your hidden agenda. :rolleyes:

Specializes in Emergency/Anaesthetics/PACU.
If you're confused about something I said, I'd recommend first asking a question rather than draw on a simplistic conclusion that suites your hidden agenda. :rolleyes:

Okay then Kabin, how would describe you not wanting to "rely" on an optometrist who isn't medically trained yet put all faith in the medical ability of a NP... who doesn't have a medical degree?

I don't have a hidden agenda, I am just trying to make some sense of some of your previous comments.

Posted by RN AMY: PS. I would be curious to know who would be first to jump up and down and instigate a law suit if any misdiagnoses occurred by a *shock horror* NP?

Haven't NPs proven to be as safe and effective as MDs?

how would describe you not wanting to "rely" on an optometrist who isn't medically trained yet put all faith in the medical ability of a NP...

Once again you make simplistic assumptions... I have never stated I would "put all faith in the medical ability of a NP." In the future I won't be responding to your seemingly cynical hyperbole.

As is with most Americans, I'm fortunate enough to have a primary care doc that I selected for my primary care needs. If there is any problem he makes the first call. If it is out of his area, such as an eye disease, I will be referred to an ophthalmologist. For my vision corrective needs, I go any optometrist I want. I do not seek vision disease needs by an optometrist.

Haven't NPs proven to be as safe and effective as MDs?
You can't compare the practice of a nursing specialty to the practice of Medicine. You can compare certain Nursing Specialties to Medical Specialties (Nurse Anesthetist to Anesthesiologist, NP to Primary care Physicians), but you can't compare one specialty of nursing to the whole entire profession of Medicine. That's what you're doing when you say, "Haven't NP's proven to be as safe and effective as MD's." MD is not one specialty, it's an entire profession. Just because you practice similarly to a medical specialist doesn't mean you should have the privileges of the entire profession.
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