Hi, I'm an RN, BSN thinking about law school. I'm interested because I see it as being intellectually stimulating and possibly a good career move.
I'm a little hesitant because I realize the job market in recent years for attorneys has been bad, but I'm thinking that since law school attendance is currently down, perhaps the job market would improve with fewer attorneys graduating.
I'm looking for any nurse attorneys out there who could give insight into this. Is it worth $150K in tuition and 3 years spent in school for the outcome? Those who have done it, would you do it over again? I'd appreciate any insight any one might have.
"Intellectually stimulating," sure. "Good career move," not so much. Unless you can get into a top tier, "name" law school and do well enough to graduate at or near the top of your class, you'll end up worse off than you are as an RN.
Have you considered becoming a nurse paralegal instead? I work at a medical malpractice defense firm, and we are required by our clients (the physician's insurer) to have a nurse paralegal on staff.
The nurse paralegals we use do not have any legal training; however they review our records, give opinions on whether they think our insured physicians met or breached the standard of care, whether we should settle the case or proceed with trial, let us know the key issues, and the "smoking guns" that the other attorneys could use against us among other job duties.
Some that I've worked with have written position papers, etc. for us that we submit to the Medical Review Panel for the panelists to render an opinion on whether the standard of care was breached (I work in Louisiana so our judicial process in med mal cases is a bit different than any other states).
It's a very interesting field, and you could contact med mal defense attorneys in your area to see what you would need to do to become a nurse paralegal.
The one we currently have on staff only works for us to supplement her income. She also works as a nursing instructor at one of the local colleges.
I live in Arizona, here, if you can get in as a government attorney (i.e. public defender/prosecutor), you will not make a whole lot, starting pay here is 61K with potential to top out at in the low 100ks. However in AZ, for government workers there is a loan repayment assistance program for the attorneys who work for the public, it will not cover your total monthly loan payments, but it covers some of it, which is better than nothing. I'm not sure what state you are from, but, look into the local governmental benefits and see if they have a similar program you could consider. Also, if you make regular on time payments on your loans, after 10 years as a public servant your loans can actually be forgiven (you have to apply for this program).
After working very closely with attorneys for several years, here are a couple things a few of them told me (for a time I had also considered law school):
1) Be sure it is what you want to do, it is a demanding & time consuming job & is usually not what you think it's going to be (talk to actual attorneys if you can)
2) Be prepared to be miserable while in school, it can be extremely challenging (but hey nursing school was a challenge too, sure you can handle that one)
3) Ivy League schools are great if you are wealthy, in the top of your class or have connections with a private firm you're going to get into, otherwise don't bother with Ivy League, not worth the cost
4) Unless you are wealthy, be prepared for the debt you will accrue...a lot of debt ($100-$250K)
Thanks SubSippi for your response - I am glad to know at least the ones who founds jobs enjoy it! I read that the depression and alcoholism rate is higher amongst attorneys than the general population. Yikes. What you saw with those you graduated w/ the last few years confirms what I have read that the job market is bad/pay is low.
I don't know anything about people who are RNs who also went to law school, but I can tell you that the people I know who have graduated within the last five years were either not able to find a job as an attorney, or are making the same amount of money that I do as a nurse with two years of experience. And they are all at least 100k in debt.
On the bright side, the ones who actually found jobs do enjoy their work. It just doesn't seem that the amount of money it cost was worth the payoff.
Horseshoe, thanks for sharing your daughter's experience. Good for your her - glad to know there are at least some people in law making a good living. :)
It really depends on the field of law. Entry level in my D's desired field is well above any nursing salary. She was making more than I do after 20 years experience in her summer internship!
But in general, the outlook isn't spectacular, and amount of debt can play a big part in how much money one can expect to actually bring home.
Thanks Wrench Party for your response. Good comparison between law and a Ph.D. Neither are a sure thing! That's an interesting idea to get a masters in a related field. I have an MPH, but not sure if that would do much good (it certainly doesn't help in nursing!)
From what I've seen of some of my undergraduate peers in law school, be prepared to come out with a lot of debt and achieve only a solid middle class income with a lot of work. Law school is like going to get a PhD these days- lots of competition and slaving away for an unsure future hat so far hasn't panned out for a lot of those in the trenches.
Unless you have a connection or are going to a top law school (Columbia, Yale, Stanford) and can guarantee a return on your investment, I'd be very wary of the prospects.
You might be better off getting a Masters in a related field to what you want to do and seeking tuition reimbursement.
Not_a_Hat_Person, RN, thanks for the info and the links to articles. I have to admit, hearing that one of your sisters waited tables after law school scares me. I guess that I would at least have my nursing career to fall back on, BUT I don't want to waste 3 years of school and all the tuition just to end up at square one! Thank you for your response.
Thanks RiskManager for the info - I looked it up, and the state where I live (CA) does have the possibility of studying under a sponsoring lawyer, but it appears that the bar pass rate for those coming out of such situations is abysmal, and I kind of figured that no law firm would hire you. I did see a quote from a lawyer in private practice who went this route and said that when clients ask him where he went to law school, they don't like the answer!
Washington state has this program: a Rule 9 internship. It requires several years of study under a sponsoring lawyer and then passing the Bar. You do not end up with a legal academic degree, and therefore virtually no lawfirm will hire you. If you want to set up your own practice or perhaps work in the government field, this may be an option.
I know 4 people that graduated law school. My cousin graduated in 2008 and she currently works at walmart in the money center. I met another woman during clinicals at the hospital that graduated in 2009 and she works in housekeeping. Another woman I know works selling life insurance policies. One lady I went to high school with got lucky and married a lawyer that was already successful. So she had her foot in the door at his law firm. She is doing well practicing as an attorney. Some of the people i mentioned couldn't pass the bar exam. If it is worth taking the risk of being underemployed go for it.
I am an RN/JD and it has worked out great for me, but I got very, very lucky. I would only recommend law school if you are a very good student, you get a high LSAT score, you can afford to go to school full-time and you can get in to a top 50 law school. I went to a top 50 school, graduated in the top 10% of my class and landed a big firm job doing health care law (regulatory and corporate stuff, not med-mal) back in 2003. All that was possible because I had the opportunity to do summer internships and get other experience that only a full-time student experience really allows you. I also found I tested well in law school (you just take 1 big exam at the end of each class, so it is a lot of pressure), but some of that was just luck -- many of my classmates, who are very smart and worked hard, did not test well and did not have good job prospects. I started out making almost 3x my salary as a nurse, but I worked a TON of hours and had to prove myself for 7 or 8 years. I then jumped to an in-house counsel position at a hospital system and got promoted to a VP position from there. I now make a very nice living, work reasonable hours and have an in-demand skill set, but if I had it to do over again, I would not do it because I know I got very lucky and might not have that same luck if I had to do it again. I also was able to get significant scholarship money for law school because of a strong GPA and LSAT score, so I had less than 50k in debt after law school which I was able to easily pay off in a few years.
RNJD65 - Thank you so much for your response! I was hoping to hear from a nurse attorney. I'm glad things worked out for you. Your path sounds difficult but rewarding. I am very fortunate to be in a position where I would be going to law school full time, if I were to do it. When I was thinking of possible career options I was thinking in-house counsel at a hospital, but it sounds like you may need experience in a big firm to get those types of jobs. Is that true? Thanks again for your response!
elkpark
14,633 Posts
"Intellectually stimulating," sure. "Good career move," not so much. Unless you can get into a top tier, "name" law school and do well enough to graduate at or near the top of your class, you'll end up worse off than you are as an RN.