NP vs PA vs CNS

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I am considering going for further education. I am an RN w/ a bachelor's degree (non-nursing) and a AA in nursing. I have 6 years experience, 3 years in cardiac acute care (stepdown). I would like information on differences between these degrees and which might be a better fit. I'm married and have a 3 year old daughter. I can't really afford to work only part-time. I have interest in the CNS degree, but was wondering what the job prospects are. I am also wondering what being a PA would be like (I know this is the NP forum). I'm not sure I can handle 4 years of NP school (financially more than anything)

Any advice would be appreciated.

I thought PA schools required a certain amount of contact hours with patients? The future-PAs I know were working as EMTs or MAs to get hours before applying.

It used to be that way. Now a lot of direct entry PA programs exist that will take people with no healthcare work experience.

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IcySageNurse is correct, once again.

The barriers to entry to PA school are greater than the barriers to entry to NP school. This, in and of itself, will keep PAs higher paid and in more demand than NPs.

Unless nursing quickly acts to standardize NP education and entry requirements, I believe PA school would provide OriolesMagic the safest long-term return on investment.

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In California all PA programs require the applicant to have healthcare experience and a bachelors degree. The education in PA programs seem more intense (fulltime, clinicals) and more like medical school. Also a PA can perform surgery. To decide between PA and NP do your research. It is probably not the best idea to base your decision on the bias nurse comments on this post. Good Luck ;)

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In California all PA programs require the applicant to have healthcare experience and a bachelors degree. The education in PA programs seem more intense (fulltime clinicals) and more like medical school. Also a PA can perform surgery. To decide between PA and NP do your research. It is probably not the best idea to base your decision on the bias nurse comments on this post. Good Luck ;)[/quote']

Since when can PA's can perform surgery?

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

This could not be further from the truth. Become a NP before you make statements like this, really.

This is simply your OPINION, not based on fact at all.

IcySageNurse is correct, once again.

The barriers to entry to PA school are greater than the barriers to entry to NP school. This, in and of itself, will keep PAs higher paid and in more demand than NPs.

Unless nursing quickly acts to standardize NP education and entry requirements, I believe PA school would provide OriolesMagic the safest long-term return on investment.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Sigh, a PA cannot perform surgery except minor surgeries the same way a NP does.

Please get your facts straight.

PA programs are not harder to get into than NP. Depends on the school with both.

I would suggest that YOU do your research.

Talk to actual NP and PA and the vast majority will tell you there is really no difference. The people screaming about the differences are not even advanced practice NPs or PA.

You are a LVN and have no clue about advanced practice. No offense intended.

If you want a PA perspective, you might try clinician1. It has both PAs and NP that actually exist in harmony.

A Physician Assistant (PA) is a licensed health professional who practices medicine under the supervision of a physician. Working as

members of the healthcare team, PAs take medical histories, examine and treat patients, order and interpret laboratory tests and x-rays,

make diagnoses, and prescribe medications.

PAs must attend a specialized medical training program associated with a medical school that includes classroom studies and clinical

experience. An academic degree and/or certificate is awarded upon graduation. Admission to PA programs is highly competitive.

Admission requirements to these programs vary from a high school diploma to a bachelor's degree.

Training programs are generally two years in length. PA training begins with a classroom or pre-clinical phase that lasts nine to twelve

months. Students then spend about a year doing clinical work in areas such as family practice, inpatient medicine, general surgery,

obstetrics and gynecology, emergency medicine, internal medicine, psychiatry, and pediatrics.

LOWER DIVISION SUBJECTS REQUIRED BY MOST U.S. PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT SCHOOLS

One year of English

Composition

English 110 & 111

One year of Biology Biology 101, 102 & 103

One year of Inorganic

(General) Chemistry

Chemistry 155 & 156

One semester of Anatomy Bio-Medical Sciences 107

One semester of

Physiology

Bio-Medical Sciences 108

One semester of

Microbiology

Bio-Medical Sciences 127

Math Requirements vary by campus. Your undergraduate major may also determine your

choice of Math requirements.

LOWER DIVISION SUBJECTS RECOMMENDED BY MOST U.S. PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT SCHOOLS

One semester of Public

Speaking/Speech

Communication 131

Computer Skills Basic computer knowledge is necessary for many physical therapy schools.

Psychology Psychology 100

* All courses should be taken for a letter grade, not Pass/No Pass.

Choosing an Undergraduate Major

For students planning on obtaining a bachelor’s degree prior to applying to PA program, “Pre-Physician Assistant” is not a major at

universities. You should give careful consideration to your choice of major and select an area of study that interests you. However,

students should select an appropriate major that could lead to an alternative career, if necessary.

Students applying to Physician Assistant programs need to plan carefully and complete the Physician Assistant requirements. Those

who plan to obtain a bachelor’s degree must also complete the requirements for their undergraduate major and the general education

required by the undergraduate transfer institution

In California all PA programs require the applicant to have healthcare experience and a bachelors degree. The education in PA programs seem more intense (fulltime, clinicals) and more like medical school. Also a PA can perform surgery. To decide between PA and NP do your research. It is probably not the best idea to base your decision on the bias nurse comments on this post. Good Luck ;)
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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

This took all of 2 minutes to find any number of PA schools that do not require a bachelors and experience.

Many still offer associate degrees.

I'm not denigrating PA programs. There are good and bad ones, the same way NPs have good and bad programs. I'm just showing you that your statements are not true about BS and experience requirements.

Associate degrees here

[h=3]Academic Credit[/h]The PCA Program is a 21-month (seven quarters) PA program and leads to a Certificate of Clinical Proficiency from the Stanford University School of Medicine. Foothill College provides academic credit for all courses. Completion of the PCA program courses qualifies the student for an AS degree through Foothill College.

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=class: section_title, colspan: 2]Riverside County Regional Medical Center/Riverside Community College District[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]RCRMC/RCCD Physician Assistant Program

Physician Assistant Program

16130 Lasselle Street

Moreno Valley, CA 92551

(951) 571-6166

Email: [email protected]

Website: http://www.rcc.edu/academicprograms/physicianassistant

Credentials Awarded: C, A; M option [/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

No experience required here.

USC Primary Care Physician Assistant ProgramEarn Your Physician Assistant Degree at SJVC in Visalia, California

[h=1]Physician Assistant Application Process[/h]

Home > Programs > Medical > Physician Assistant > Application Process

Applicants for the Physician Assistant program must have completed 60 semester or 90 quarter college units with a satisfactory GPA of 2.5 or higher. Prerequisite courses include 3 semester or 4 quarter units in several life sciences, writing and composition, speech, psychology, sociology and college level math. Prerequisite science courses should be with a grade of “B” or better. Non-science prerequisite courses must be completed with a grade of “C” or better.

Prerequisite courses

  • • General Chemistry (with lab)
  • • General Microbiology (with lab)
  • • Human Physiology (with lab)
  • • Human Anatomy (with lab)
  • • Public Speaking or Oral Communication
  • • Intro to Sociology or Cultural Anthropology
  • • Reading and Composition
  • • General Psychology
  • • College algebra or higher*

*College algebra must be equivalent in depth & breadth to SJVC’s Math 121/122. All required coursework completed in the United States must be from a regionally accredited institution.

Coursework listed as “in progress” will not be accepted, and advanced placement, transfer of physician assistant credits, or credit for experiential learning, is not permitted. Students must participate in the full 24-month curriculum.

2,000 hours of direct patient care experience is also required for admission (paid and volunteer hours are acceptable). Hours accrued as a student in a training program cannot be used towards this total.

Applicants must also meet the technical standards to be considered for the program. Technical standards provide a reference against which candidates for enrollment to the program are evaluated by the Admissions Committee in the selection of students for the PA program.

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Specializes in Public Health.

I am in the application process to start a career in Nursing, and I've applied to direct-entry Nurse Practitioner programs. I chose this route, because while NP's and PA's are both midlevel practitioners, there is a difference in the method of care. I know both NP's and PA's. The perception that I get from PA's, with many exceptions, is that it is about curing the disease. Often times, empathy is lacking. NP's, however, are trained to care more for the patient's overall health, which includes educating the patient and family about their illness, or nutrition(which is not a required course in most PA curricula.) This is fine, except, the American Medical Association fight to limit NP's power. They argue that more people will die from misdiagnosis. How many times do people go to a second or third doctor for a "second opinion"? I am in my 20's and I had a pain in my side. The doc told me that it was diverticulitis, without running any tests... "you're a little for it, but this is what it sounds like..."

The reality is that docs are afraid to allow too much NP autonomy, because they would become competition. Ultimately, NP and PA are cheap labor and doctors control PA's, but are slowly losing control over the NP's. Also, many people, including doctors don't know what the nursing method actually is, and that is what the NP's education is built on - along with advanced medical training. Furthermore, NP's have more career flexibility. You will be able to move into so many specialties, if you are not happy or want to explore others. You can become certified in most things. NP's conduct research, teach, consult, etc.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

1. No such thing as a midlevel provider.

2. There is no difference clinically between PA and NP. It is the person and not the initials. I've seen good and bad MD, NP and PA.

3 even though PAs are supervised by MDs, in practice they are also mostly independent.

4. NPs are independent in many states.

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Specializes in SDU, Tele.
Right, but those DE students went through RN school and clinicals, even if they didn't work as RNs. Many PA programs take people with literally no healthcare background at all.

MOST PA programs require a minimum requirement of GOOD HCE(many times over 1000 hrs)--meaning army medics, RTs, RNs, PNs, ER techs, PTAs, etc. including volunteering and shadowing MDs/PAs/NPs.

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Specializes in SDU, Tele.
This took all of 2 minutes to find any number of PA schools that do not require a bachelors and experience.

Many still offer associate degrees.

I'm not denigrating PA programs. There are good and bad ones, the same way NPs have good and bad programs. I'm just showing you that your statements are not true about BS and experience requirements.

Associate degrees here

Academic Credit

The PCA Program is a 21-month (seven quarters) PA program and leads to a Certificate of Clinical Proficiency from the Stanford University School of Medicine. Foothill College provides academic credit for all courses. Completion of the PCA program courses qualifies the student for an AS degree through Foothill College.

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=class: section_title, colspan: 2]Riverside County Regional Medical Center/Riverside Community College District[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]RCRMC/RCCD Physician Assistant Program

Physician Assistant Program

16130 Lasselle Street

Moreno Valley, CA 92551

(951) 571-6166

Email: [email protected]

Website: http://www.rcc.edu/academicprograms/physicianassistant

Credentials Awarded: C, A; M option[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

No experience required here.

USC Primary Care Physician Assistant ProgramEarn Your Physician Assistant Degree at SJVC in Visalia, California

Physician Assistant Application Process

Home > Programs > Medical > Physician Assistant > Application Process

Applicants for the Physician Assistant program must have completed 60 semester or 90 quarter college units with a satisfactory GPA of 2.5 or higher. Prerequisite courses include 3 semester or 4 quarter units in several life sciences, writing and composition, speech, psychology, sociology and college level math. Prerequisite science courses should be with a grade of “B” or better. Non-science prerequisite courses must be completed with a grade of “C” or better.

Prerequisite courses

  • • General Chemistry (with lab)
  • • General Microbiology (with lab)
  • • Human Physiology (with lab)
  • • Human Anatomy (with lab)
  • • Public Speaking or Oral Communication
  • • Intro to Sociology or Cultural Anthropology
  • • Reading and Composition
  • • General Psychology
  • • College algebra or higher*

*College algebra must be equivalent in depth & breadth to SJVC’s Math 121/122. All required coursework completed in the United States must be from a regionally accredited institution.

Coursework listed as “in progress” will not be accepted, and advanced placement, transfer of physician assistant credits, or credit for experiential learning, is not permitted. Students must participate in the full 24-month curriculum.

2,000 hours of direct patient care experience is also required for admission (paid and volunteer hours are acceptable). Hours accrued as a student in a training program cannot be used towards this total.

Applicants must also meet the technical standards to be considered for the program. Technical standards provide a reference against which candidates for enrollment to the program are evaluated by the Admissions Committee in the selection of students for the PA program.

These requirements are nearly identical to my local PA program that also awards an associates. Now they are offering a Bachelor's and Master's bridge program with local universities.

Just because it isn't a requirement to have a bachelor's doesn't mean they don't give you points for having more education. My local program has a really tough point system and having advanced education strengthens your app. Most of those who get accepted are medics/flight medics/rns/pns with lots of experience. We also get lots of FMGs.

Personally I just prefer the PA curriculum since its more science-y. But I have seen great NPs working as hospitalists and meeting good outcomes. Your education and career is in your hands and whatever you choose, if you dedicate yourself to it, you will be a good provider.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

The bottom line is clinically, there is no difference between PA and NP. It is all the person.

I'll go further and say that clinically there is no difference between MD/DO and NP or PA after 5 years of practice.

Before some of you go off, I am comparing apples to apples. I'm not comparing surgeons to NPs or ER physicians to NPs or Pas. I'm comparing family practice physicians to NP/PA in both the clinic and ER.

It all comes down to the person and not the initials.

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