Non nursing PhD

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 4, 2018

Well, I wouldn't claim to have the expertise on both fields but being a PMHNP and being a researcher with a PhD in Neurosciences are related but are entirely different career trajectories. PMHNP's are providers working in a mental health clinical setting.

At a minimum a PhD is not required for an NP in that setting. The only setting I could see both fields merging into one role would be as a faculty member in academia where you may be allowed a percentage devoted to clinical practice (let's say 50%) and the other half devoted to your research in Neuroscience.

It can be a prestige thing to some institutions if you could attract the kind of funding for research as a member of the faculty and have significant yield of research output as a result. I don't know if doing both is indeed do-able because my understanding of nursing faculty with PhD's who are also NP's but are heavily involved in research is that they are left with very few time devoted to clinical practice anymore if at all.

Neuro Guy NP, DNP, PhD, APRN · Jun 4, 2018

Some Neuroscience PhD programs are more 'psych geared' such as Princeton's. Their program has tracks dedicated to addictions, behavior, and that aspect of neuroscience, whereas others, such as my program was geared more to the medical arena (my track was traumatic brain and spinal cord injury, whereas I have colleagues that are neuroengineering, addictions, neuropharm, etc). In short, neuroscience PhD programs do vary and there are various tracks you can pursue to fit your needs, so a PhD in this field does not necessarily have to take you down a different track than the current one you're on, i.e. psychiatry/psychology.

SDStudent1 · Jun 7, 2018

Neuro Guy, Thats a good point, I have been doing some more research and found a few that are more 'psych geared'. Also I may take another look at some of the psychology programs that have specializations in cognitive, behavioral or systems neuroscience. If I may ask, I am assuming you are a PMHNP with a degree in Neuroscience as well. How have you used this education combo ? What setting do you work in ? Did you find it beneficial ? Did you education make you uniquely suited to work in a particular area ? Thank you for taking the time to answer

Neuro Guy NP, DNP, PhD, APRN · Jun 9, 2018

Actually I'm an ACNP practicing in neurosurgery and Neurocritical Care. My program more medical based, approaching neuroscience from a neurobiological perspective (courses like medical neuroscience, neuropharm, neuropathophys, virology, and of course neuroanatomy, etc), housed withun the medical school. There is a track that is more psych geared, such as addictions to name one, but I did the traumatic brain and spinal cord track while a friend of mine is finishing with the Neuroengineering track.

Neuro Guy NP, DNP, PhD, APRN · Jun 9, 2018

And actually yes, I do find that the program strongly enriched my clinical practice. It has made a world of difference, in concert with my fellowship program that I did also.

TuxnadoDO · Jun 11, 2018

What do you actually want to do at work every day? Evaluate, diagnose and treat patients? In what setting? Or research? Or teaching?

SDStudent1 · Jun 11, 2018

I am trying to keep an open mind to where my career may take me. I enjoy learning & working in psych (and science in general) so working as a PMHNP and research are both very appealing to me. Although I don't want to teach at this point in my life, I would like to at least have the option in the future. Several Psychiatrists I work with round on patients in the hospital, participate in research studies being conducted by the hospital and have small private practices on their own. As of right now I'd like to do something similar but am keeping an open mind to things that I may not know about or be considering given my lack of experience in the field. I am more or less am asking in the above question if those with experience view my tentative plans are realist and/or worth while to pursue.

TuxnadoDO · Jun 12, 2018

So, I don't have psych experience beyond med school, but I did at various times consider MD/PhD and did a masters program where I worked with both MDs and MD/PhDs, so I got to see what their careers were like.

In terms of your field of interest, neuropsychiatry is its own field, and it sounds right up your alley. However, I don't think there are dedicated neuropsych PhD programs. There are neuropsychology programs, but these are more focused on the psychology of people with neurological disease rather than the neurology of people with psychiatric disease.

American Neuropsychiatric Association - About Us

If evaluating and treating patients is important to you, you'll obviously need either MD/DO or NP. From the NP route (without the PhD) you could seek out and try to work with an attending who does research you find interesting, and is receptive to having you involved. However that seems like a really specific situation and it might be difficult to find.

If you had a PhD in neurobiology or behavioral neuroscience, that would CERTAINLY open up a ton of doors for you -- research, teaching later, etc. If you decided that treating patients was important and did the NP as well, I could see you becoming a very valuable asset and having plenty of options. I'm SURE it would enrich your practice. My masters degree required research and a thesis, the coursework was in biological science and had a concentration in oncology. Even though I'm just an ER doc, it gave me a deeper understanding of oncogenesis and has given me a broader background as a scientist. I'm better able to critically evaluate new research studies which is super important for anyone in the provider role.

I will throw this out there -- you're looking at 4-6 years for the PhD. If you are more research/scientist inclined, this would probably be the right thing to pursue. You sound like someone who won't be intellectually satisfied going the NP route and stopping there. If you are more clinically inclined, consider medical school :)

SDStudent1 · Jun 29, 2018

Thank you very much for your response. You gave me a lot to think about. I went back and forth on going to Med school vs NP route and ultimately choose PMHNP for a number of reasons. That being said I don't plan on stopping there. I am still fairly young so Med school wouldn't be out of the question. I guess the way I look at right now is there is nothing stopping me from getting as much as I can out of self studying from recommended resources used in med school (First Aide, Sketchymicro/pharm, Pathoma etc.). I am doing this in my NP program and studying well beyond what is expected of me to try to make up areas I feel I am weak in. I understand that would in no way be equivalent, but its the best I can do without going $300,000 in debt. In my mind, PMHNP is a fulfilling career that I feel I would enjoy and would provide an income that allow me to pursue other interest as well. Thats the plan at least, but like I said I am keeping an open mind because anything could happen and I am sure I have not considered a lot.

TuxnadoDO · Jun 30, 2018

Thank you very much for your response. You gave me a lot to think about. I went back and forth on going to Med school vs NP route and ultimately choose PMHNP for a number of reasons. That being said I don't plan on stopping there. I am still fairly young so Med school wouldn't be out of the question. I guess the way I look at right now is there is nothing stopping me from getting as much as I can out of self studying from recommended resources used in med school (First Aide, Sketchymicro/pharm, Pathoma etc.). I am doing this in my NP program and studying well beyond what is expected of me to try to make up areas I feel I am weak in. I understand that would in no way be equivalent, but its the best I can do without going $300,000 in debt. In my mind, PMHNP is a fulfilling career that I feel I would enjoy and would provide an income that allow me to pursue other interest as well. Thats the plan at least, but like I said I am keeping an open mind because anything could happen and I am sure I have not considered a lot.

Gotcha. If your goal is to go above and beyond with studying, i would study from primary resources first (actual textbooks) - First Aid and books like that are used as review resources.

Good luck! :)

NurseJamillah, MSN, NP · Jan 23, 2020

On 6/3/2018 at 8:18 PM, SDStudent1 said:
I was hoping to get some opinions on pursuing a non nursing PhD. A little background on me, I have a degree in psychology. I originally was taking the premed route and majored in Biotech so I have most of the hard science courses covered and many courses in neuroscience. I have worked as a psych RN for 3 years and am currently working on getting research experience in oncology. My goal would be to finish my PMHNP (possibly get a FNP cert afterwards) and then apply for Neuroscience PhD programs. I do not have any interest in getting a Nurse PhD or DNP. My research interest are primarily covered by Neuroscience field. I would like to know what people's thoughts are on taking this route. Do you feel PMHNP and PhD in Neuroscience could work synergistically in that I could somehow combine them both into one career or would I ultimately have to choose to work in one or the other? Can you think of a setting that having this combination of education would be beneficial? Is there a different route that you feel makes more sense? Thank you in advance

Hi!

If you don't mind me asking, did you end up deciding to pursue your PhD? I am in a PMHNP master's program right now, and I find myself curious about the same path! Before I got my nursing BS, I did a BS in Biology.

I hope all is well!