Non-degree RN from CA in AZ DNP program without AZ RN license!!

[butterflyeffect]

This is really convoluted and insane but here goes...

I transferred out of a Direct Entry FNP program in CA into a Doctor of Nursing Practice program in AZ. I have applied for my AZ RN license only to discover that because I had not actually graduated from a nursing program I am not eligible for an AZ license!! The portion of the Direct Entry program I completed is equivalent to a BSN (in fact we took the exact same courses as the BSN students and even had some of the same teachers!) but because the program is recognized as a graduate program and the financial aid that is received for the program is considered to be toward a graduate degree, the state of CA said the school could no longer confer BSN's to the students in the direct entry program on their way to their MSN (sigh) and so I sat for the NCLEX and was awarded my RN as a non-degree RN. I was the lucky one to be a part of the first cohort in which they had to do that with...yea me! Every other cohort before me got their BSN on their way to their MSN.

I was told that there is someone who will be in on Monday who has the authority to put me through after evaulating my transcripts (which they already have) maybe, possibly. I also went ahead and asked my program director from the Direct Entry program to send a letter to the AZ BON indicating the situation and that indeed the coursework I took is the same as the BSN coursework...

So my questions are:

1- Is there anyone else out there that has done this and what was the outcome?

2- What are some of my options in order to get my paper that says I have a BSN?

I was even considering going to the DNP program I am in now and asking that school to evaluate my transcripts and give me my BSN, lol! I would gladly take a few courses if that was what was necessary to make that happen.

a very sad and scared butterfly (but not giving up...necessity is the mother of invention...or loop holes, lol!)

[elkpark]

I know there have been other posts and threads here from people in the same type of situation -- folks who did enough of a direct-entry program to get licensed as an RN in their "home" state, but, when they wanted to endorse into another state, they found they were in limbo; the new state wouldn't license them because they hadn't completed an approved nursing program.

I don't recall what the final outcomes were, though -- maybe you can figure out how to do a search (what search terms to use, I mean :)) to find those threads.

Best wishes!

[caliotter3]

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation. Not making any sense at all, unless one sees in this a new way to get more money from the students caught up.

[sirI, MSN, APRN, NP]

I know there have been other posts and threads here from people in the same type of situation -- folks who did enough of a direct-entry program to get licensed as an RN in their "home" state, but, when they wanted to endorse into another state, they found they were in limbo; the new state wouldn't license them because they hadn't completed an approved nursing program.

I don't recall what the final outcomes were, though -- maybe you can figure out how to do a search (what search terms to use, I mean :)) to find those threads.

Best wishes!

This is true. What the individual had to do was complete courses towards the degree in an approved program recognized by that state. So, you may have to do the same thing, then all would probably be good.

(as far as I know, and I could be wrong, California is the only state that allows sitting for NCLEX w/o actually graduating from a nursing program. and, their RN license is only good in the state of California and cannot be endorsed in any other state)

[elkpark]

(as far as I know, and I could be wrong, California is the only state that allows sitting for NCLEX w/o actually graduating from a nursing program. and, their RN license is only good in the state of California and cannot be endorsed in any other state)

Actually, there have been several people (as I recall vaguely :)) who have posted here from different states that they had started a direct-entry MSN program but, for one reason or another, left the program after completing the "basic nursing education" portion of the program but before completing the MSN. They were able to get licensed in the state in which they had gone to school and everything was hunky-dory and they had no idea that there could be trouble until they wanted to endorse into another state, and the new state wouldn't license them. Some direct-entry programs award a BSN after the first year or so of the program (the students have basically completed an accelerated BSN program) and those students would not have any problems if they left school with BSN in hand (but without the MSN). The problem comes if you're in one of the direct-entry programs that doesn't award a BSN.

I attended grad school as a traditional student at a school that (also) has a direct-entry MSN program -- one of the ones that doesn't award a BSN. I know for a fact that the direct-entry students at my school were able to write the NCLEX and get licensed (in the state in which the school was located (not CA)) part-way through the MSN program, without a degree, diploma, certificate, or anything else -- just by virtue of having completed the basic-nursing-education portion of the direct-entry program. Apparently, these schools have worked out some kind of arrangement with their BON. Of course, if one stays in one's program and completes the MSN, then there's no problem because you've completed an approved program, so you're good in any state.

[sirI, MSN, APRN, NP]

Thanks, elkpark.

[butterflyeffect]

thanks elkpark. i am hoping against hope that the person who is reviewing my transcripts will see that i took all the courses associated with a bsn from an accredited program and that will be that. i was also considering contacting one of the places listed on the application that evaluates the foreign transcripts and see what they could do with my transcripts.

these are listed on the az rn endorsement application for the foreign nurses (go figure they are in ca)

international education research

foundation

p.o. box 3665

culver city, ca 90231

phone: [phone]

fax: [phone]

e-mail: [email protected]

website: www.ierf.org

educational records evaluation

services

601 university avenue, suite 127

sacramento, ca 95825-6738

phone: [phone]

toll-free: 866-411-eres

fax: [phone]

email: [email protected]

website: www.eres.com

when i get done with this i swear i am going to go into the political side of nursing and fight for national standardization...we all sat for the nclex (i passed it in 75 questions)...if this is not good enough for some states then the test needs to change...the only thing someone should have to do if they are current and passed the nclex is pay the state for their license in that state...this has to change it is just stupid ridiculous.

[noahsmama]

Here's a link to an old discussion of non-degree RN's. I haven't read it, so don't know if it has useful info, but can't hurt to take a look!

https://allnurses.com/california-nurses/non-degree-rn-264706.html

Good luck!

[elkpark]

thanks elkpark. i am hoping against hope that the person who is reviewing my transcripts will see that i took all the courses associated with a bsn from an accredited program and that will be that. i was also considering contacting one of the places listed on the application that evaluates the foreign transcripts and see what they could do with my transcripts.

these are listed on the az rn endorsement application for the foreign nurses (go figure they are in ca)

international education research

foundation

p.o. box 3665

culver city, ca 90231

phone: [phone]

fax: [phone]

e-mail: [email protected]

website: www.ierf.org

educational records evaluation

services

601 university avenue, suite 127

sacramento, ca 95825-6738

phone: [phone]

toll-free: 866-411-eres

fax: [phone]

email: [email protected]

website: www.eres.com

when i get done with this i swear i am going to go into the political side of nursing and fight for national standardization...we all sat for the nclex (i passed it in 75 questions)...if this is not good enough for some states then the test needs to change...the only thing someone should have to do if they are current and passed the nclex is pay the state for their license in that state...this has to change it is just stupid ridiculous.

well, i certainly don't wish you any ill or any further trouble, but i am guessing that the problem you're going to run into is that there are many different models of nursing education in different countries around the globe, and, because of that, us states are willing to look at whether the education of a foreign-educated nurse is comparable to the standard us model of nursing education, but, as you have been right here in the good ol' us the entire time, the bon may have a hard time understanding (or sympathizing with) why you didn't just complete a nursing program that meets their requirements for licensure (or why you don't complete one now). whether it's right or not, having taken all the courses for a degree is not the same as holding the degree.

as for "national standardization," i doubt any of us will see that in our lifetimes (and i. personally, don't want to). each us state has the right to regulate the practice of nursing and every other licensed occupation or profession within its own borders, and the states are not going to give that up without a fight (shoot, about half of the states are still declining to join the nlc). us old-timers are still counting our blessings that the nclex itself is now nationally standardized -- until comparatively recently in us history, states still each had their own board exam -- some were embarassingly easy; some were notoriously more difficult than average, and, if you wanted to move to another state and practice, you had to write that state's board exam regardless of how many decades you had been successfully practicing as a nurse. passing the nclex is just one of the requirements for licensure in any state -- passing the nclex, by itself, does not get you a license. (and whether or not the current form of the nclex is actually a useful or valuable measure of anything is a whole 'nother discussion! :))

the thing i find most surprising about your whole situation is that you were able to be accepted into the az graduate program without (already) having a valid az license. was that not a requirement for matriculation? (or am i reading your post wrong? it sounds like you're saying you're already in the dnp program and this issue has come up "after the fact.")

i do hope you are able to find a good outcome for your predicament, though -- best wishes!

[butterflyeffect]

Yes, in the program...and doing very well....I think it is odd as well that no one said anything to me about the whole oh you dont have a formal RN degree but you have an RN that might not work out for you to move to AZ that only works in CA. I was clear up front that I have several other degrees but no formal RN degree and they said they would take a letter from my school indicating that I had taken coursework that is BSN equivalent.

Thanks all of you for your words of wisdom. This is just a stepping stone...I will figure out a way to make it work even if I have to take some additional classes to get the formal BSN and take a semester off from the DNP. I so love this program though...that would be a shame.

I still believe a nurse should be a nurse should be a nurse no matter where you are in the country...the standards should be the same for everyone...and they should be high. I might not see it in my lifetime either but having a cohesive standard and language will strengthen us as a separate and distinct health care profession and our political clout when it comes to legislation. The AMA gets this and that is why they are so good at getting what they want. Nurses need to be good at getting what they want too. :redpinkhe

[elkpark]

I still believe a nurse should be a nurse should be a nurse no matter where you are in the country...the standards should be the same for everyone...and they should be high. I might not see it in my lifetime either but having a cohesive standard and language will strengthen us as a separate and distinct health care profession and our political clout when it comes to legislation. The AMA gets this and that is why they are so good at getting what they want. Nurses need to be good at getting what they want too. :redpinkhe

And, yet, physicians also, still, are licensed individually by each separate state and there are differences in the requirements among states, same as with nursing ... :)