Negotiating my salary is exhausting!

[CocoaLoverFNP]

I was offered a full time job at an IM clinic. I asked for $48 per hour compensation with full benefits because i thought this was reasonable for a new grad in southern CA. The average is $44-46/hr.

On my second day of orientation, my boss told me that she is going to switch my pay to salary. She said she will offer me 75k per year. I was really shocked!

I told her that at the hospital, although without benefits, I get paid $52 per hour. Then she said that i shouldn't expect that much because being a nurse is different from being an NP. She also has to train me and that will take time. Then i countered and said i am willing to meet her at $88k. Then she said she can only offer up to $80k. Then i said i also have to make ends meet at home so I will think about it over the weekend.

Then she said she will call me back this weekend for a final offer.

Any suggestion or tips on how to handle this negotiation when she calls me back? Should i walk away from a low ball offer? Or is it worth it to get that experience for a year then go? This negotiating acitvity is exhausting! ;-)

I want to get an offer of at least 86-88k. I am better off working at the weight loss clinic at $60/hr

Thank you!

[xenogenetic]

If she floated the balloon of messing with ur pay after ur already on board and sees you're ok with it and still showing up for work there then you've just set a financially unfavorable precedent for yourself. Its analogous to letting the shark sense ur blood in the water...she will keep nipping at you, probably indefinitely, quite frankly. Also, as a previous poster already point out, it's good practice to get your pay in writing before u even show up for 1st day. Going forward, with regards for ur next job, don't even put in ur 2 week notice on ur current job without having the pay for your next job put in writing. To not have something so important locked in is doing yourself, and whoever is counting on your finances (an older u with retirement funding needs, wife, kids, elderly parents, etc.) a disservice.

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

You actually started work without negotiated compensation? Without an offer letter that stated compensation? No wonder they think they can screw you over! You gave the impression that working for them is your number one concern and everything else is secondary. Quit now and consider that a lesson learned.

[scottaprn]

I will disagree with some posters. I hear you mention experience being wanted to get a better job. Get the best offer you can get immediately and then start job hunting.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

I'm really shocked at the low pay. I thought southern CA was one of the higher paying areas, because of the high cost of living.

To put it in perspective, I'm making just a little over what she offered you, with less than a year's experience as a NP. And, I live in a rural area of the southeast, for a state run facility.

Thank you for sharing, Sadiemae!

This practice is situated in the urban area and our average for a new grad is $44-$46 or 86-88k. One would think doctors would pay more, considering the large amount of patients we have to see daily, but that's not true. I don't know how much they pay NPs in the bay area but i'm pretty sure it would be more as RNs get paid a lot more over there.

[gibsongirl]

Keep the job and find something better. They deserve a brief commitment from you. I would not want to work there longer than I have to.

My job changed me from hourly to pay per visit on day one. A year later I found out my PPV rate was the same as the LPN visit rate. They compensated me (somewhat) and decreased my hourly non productive time rate. They nickel and dime the employees constantly. The mileage rate changes every month. Our workplace is 10% patient focused, 90% bottom line.

This is the writing on the wall.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

Why didn't you take the weight loss clinic job? Is that completely off the table now?

My guess is since its a specialty and possibly something people either really enjoy or don't have any interest in doing they pay more. I would also guess it is probably a profitable business which often lends to higher pay. Its possible they suck to work for? but that hasn't been my experience with jobs that pay higher. In fact those that present as miserly initially scare me off quick.

The work at the wt loss clinic is repetitive and less stressful compared to what i will be doing at the IM clinic. The current NP there is now burnt out because she is working everyday (monday to sunday). They hired me to relieve her every weekend. I am working there now every weekend. I have to stay in this clinic for 6 months because they are reimbursing me for all of my licensing fees.

I am not sure if this employer will suck but so far i am liking the lighter load as a new grad. The manager makes me feel welcomed and i really love that. I can actually see myself doing this for a while. The services are paid by cash only and heard that the clinic is actually generating a lot of income. Maybe that's why they can afford paying me that much.

I found this IM job later and decided to work full time for at least 6 months to a year... For the experience. And also because i miss working a lot! My husband and i just bought a house and in order to get by with our expenses, i have to stick to 88k.

However, i am worried that i may be aiming high. The doctor said i haven't done knee injections, suturing, etc., which in other words, she will be training me a lot. I am also taking a while charting in eClinicalWorks but i am sure that after a few more days, i would be charting faster. This is the first time I have ever used it. She said i will not be generating income in the first few months. That's how she is justifying my salary offer.

Should training/orientation put weight on my salary? Everything sounds so new to me.... As an acute care RN, i never had to feel guilty about my training, to point that i feel like i have to sacrifice my salary.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

I echo the above comments. Is the weight loss job still on the table? Is the weight loss job strict hourly and no benefits? I'm assuming you would like the IM position for broader experience but that offer sounds low. I need to know so, so, sooo much more.

Yes, I am working at the wt loss clinic now but only on the weekends (total of 12 hrs per week). It is strictly $60 per hour without benefits. You are correct, i want to work at the IM clinic to get that first year of experience that every doctor in CA seems to require for all NPs. Yes, the offer is low! I have done my research and i can't accept such an offer that is lower than Southern CA average.

How many patients are you seeing? If this is a very low volume job that may be a reasonable offer. However if the manager is expecting you to churn out 25 to 30+ patients a day run for the hills and take that weightloss job. Also ask the same for the weight loss job.

For an NP, the average is to see between 18 to 20 patients per day at the IM clinic. At the weight loss clinic, i see about 40 patients but most are refill visits. I basically review poss medication side effects with the pt and i decide if i will stay with the same dose or titrate down/up. Really easy if you have been doing it for a while.

Realistically at the IM job, how many hours a week will you have to work?. The main drawback to Salary positions is it's basically giving the manager "free work" after 40 hours a week. Say that you work an average of 45 hours a week and you get your 80K salary. That will average about $34.19/hour. That's $25/hour or so less than the weight loss job. On the other hand, what if this salaried job only required you being there 30 hours a week. That's $52.28/hour.

Full time NP has to work Monday to Friday from 9 to 5pm. I am sure that i will be working from 8 to 6pm. She also said something about taking calls from the hospital in the future but she said that she will not make me take that responsibility right now.

Other things I would need to consider: Does the weight loss job come with benefits? $60/hour sounds great but is that full time or just 12 hours during the week? Just wage wise not including other benefits and assuming equal interest the weight loss job sounds much better.). =)

I wish i could work full time at the wt loss clinic but they only have a per diem position. Thanks you for your response, swimstudent! ]

[CocoaLoverFNP]

Be brave and walk away! Don't put up with that kind of treatment. California is a large state that isn't the only job.

I know that too! But i have been looking for a job in IM or family practice settings in the last 3 months and this was only the second one to offer me a job (after 20 applications). I am worried that I won't be finding a job soon enough to get that experience.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

Did you get an official offer letter with the pay rate? She can't just decide to change your offer on day 2.

Unfortunately, the offer letter was not signed by her yet when i received it. The letter was sent to me by the office manager. The manager said she will tell the doctor to sign it. Then i got a call from the doctor saying that we will talk about my pay the next day, in person.

I really want to talk about my pay in person so i came back. Then we got busy with all the patients so i followed her all day until she had the time to talk to me in private. I understand she shouldn't change what was talked about but unfortunately, the offer was only made verbally. I am still waiting for her call (as she promised, she will call me back for her final offer) but I know that i can't go back on Monday without knowing my definite salary... In writing.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

If she floated the balloon of messing with ur pay after ur already on board and sees you're ok with it and still showing up for work there then you've just set a financially unfavorable precedent for yourself. Its analogous to letting the shark sense ur blood in the water...she will keep nipping at you, probably indefinitely, quite frankly. Also, as a previous poster already point out, it's good practice to get your pay in writing before u even show up for 1st day. Going forward, with regards for ur next job, don't even put in ur 2 week notice on ur current job without having the pay for your next job put in writing. To not have something so important locked in is doing yourself, and whoever is counting on your finances (an older u with retirement funding needs, wife, kids, elderly parents, etc.) a disservice.

Yes, agreed! To get by with our finances, i have to keep my RN job or stick to $88k per year (but that means we won't be having many vacations planned this year).

[CocoaLoverFNP]

You actually started work without negotiated compensation? Without an offer letter that stated compensation? No wonder they think they can screw you over! You gave the impression that working for them is your number one concern and everything else is secondary. Quit now and consider that a lesson learned.

Yup, i know that now. But the whole situation is very confusing from the very beginning. This is the first time i am negotiating contracts or pay. As an RN before, i was really spoiled. I get the offer letter right away without questions, complaints, or issues. Everything is laid out for me and signed right away. I really thought this is the standard for every employer. Lol, but yes, lesson learned! Everything has to be in writing (signed by both parties) from now on.

[CocoaLoverFNP]

I will disagree with some posters. I hear you mention experience being wanted to get a better job. Get the best offer you can get immediately and then start job hunting.

Yes, you are also right. Sounds like i am going to sacrifice my pay though

If she offers me at least $86k with benefits (and possible renegotiation after 3 months), i will take it. But if not, i will probably walk away. Unfortunately, i'm very anxious about the risk of not finding the next job.