Navy Nursing and Ethics

nightmare, RN · Jul 28, 2008

I would have thought the best person to ask would be a Navy recruiter.

JDCitizen · Jul 28, 2008

I do not know if anyone has encountered a situation that would enable them to answer my question, but I am wondering about a navy nurse's right to object to participate in procedures or programs that conflict with his or her own convictions. That would be my main concern with a position that is much more contractual than that of a civilian nurse. I would not want to qualify for some sort of punishment if I objected to participate in a clinical procedure or program that I did not agree with if I had less flexibility to do so.
Any thoughts?
Thank you!
Rachel

Good question.. Recruiter might be able to help some but I would lean more towards the chief nurse. If your are not already obligated the probably the best bet would be to ask and talk with a chief nurse...

Some folks here who are serving may be able to add information shortly....

tallone123 · Jul 29, 2008

I thought I would mention that when I was a member of a previous professional association (ACHE), the nature of working with ethical issues can be quite complex, and this is in the civilian world, not military.

I don't know what type of transparency there is with a large military hospital's ethics panel/committee, but chances are the members of this committee would probably be an interesting place to field a question/situation you have in mine, eh?

I don't know if a committee of this nature would have transcripts of ethical issues that have gone before them, but if many of the same members of this committee have been there for any term of duration, chances are they have probably seen issues like you have on your mind.

I used to work at one of the VA's in graduate school (in a research capacity), and of course the nature of how the IRB (Internal Review Board) was going to treat researchers' projects was always on their minds). Just my $0.02 of input.

R2ndof7 · Jul 29, 2008

Thank you all for your input. I was coming at it from the thought that there might not be formal statements on objecting to participating in certain programs or procedures. If you can't turn down assignments (referencing a post by Athena concerning the army), I thought this might also involve responsibilities in the clinical setting. I didn't think of a recruiter as a logical source of information on this because it is often not relevant until you have had such a situation arise that involves intense ethical deliberations.

navynurse06 · Jul 31, 2008

Just want to add here...being in the military if you are asked to do something....aka ordered to do something it's kind of hard to object to it. Yes if there are some moral reasons...maybe your superiors will be understanding and work with you. However, that depends on the superior officer...and some could care less about your morals/ethics and will order you to do things any how...and part of our general orders while being in the military is "obeying the orders of those apponinted over me..." So if you disobey a direct order...you will get some kind of punishment.

Sometimes it sucks and I have to do things I don't really agree with or don't like...but I pledged an oath and signed on the dotted line. Just something to think about...

LTJG PM

Trauma Columnist · Jul 31, 2008

Navynurse - I agree with you. The military is not like civilian nursing where you can (sometimes) opt out of certain procedures. The military is just that, military. You do as you are told, go where you are told and that's it.

If you have certain strong feelings about certain clinical matters, maybe reconsidering military service BEFORE you take the oath would be in your best interest.

tallone123 · Jul 31, 2008

Thanks for responding folks! I was just curious what type(s) of ethical issues come up for people in a military hospital setting that can potentially create grief/strife for those that are ordered to fulfill them?

Some of the ethical chasms I have heard clinical staff discuss is the nature of how certain religious beliefs can impede healthcare delivery. One fellow MD-student (also ex-Navy) in grad school had an experience where she had a patient who would not let them transfuse any blood (objecting on religious grounds), despite the patient needing it direly. Somehow it barely worked out in the end without it.

When their are kids involved though, I get the feeling that clinicians are adept at understanding that if a court order has to be acquired before a blood transfusion is absolutely needed, above the objects of the parents, then in the best interests of the pediatric patient, they'll acquire it.

A question for folks in the nursing administrators within military healthcare...if the nursing shortage is indeed dire (right?), as far as I understand, the military does not/will not pay for additional overtime for their staff to work additional shifts. Why is this?

One would think that smart, snappy, stud-like nursing staff members really want to sharpen their nursing skills, give patient care, and earn a little more. In this case, why would ambition, motivation, hard work ethic, etc., not be economically rewarded in the military's healthcare pay structure?

Overtime expense could represent a large amount of nurse income payable on the balance sheet, but if it's needed and staff are willing to work it, then one would think this would be a net gain for patients, the hospital, staff, etc. Thoughts?

lifeafter40 · Jul 31, 2008

The reason they don't pay overtime is this: If the Military needs you to work extra hours to meet the demand, then you WILL work the extra hours, you just will not get paid extra for doing so... Welcome to the military :)