National Nurses Organizing committee

FLmomof5 · Dec 17, 2009

join if you wish. i am not a 'pro-union' type person, but i do agree nurses need to stand up as a group and demand to be respected.

that being said, they lost me on their last premise:

the union pledges to address the following:

advance the interests of direct care nurses and patients across the u.s.
organize all direct care rns "into a single organization capable of exercising influence over the healthcare industry, governments, and employers."
promote effective collective bargaining representation to all nnu affiliates to promote the economic and professional interests of all direct care rns.
expand the voice of direct care rns and patients in public policy, including the enactment of safe nurse-to-patient ratios and patient advocacy rights in congress and every state.
win "healthcare justice, accessible, quality healthcare for all, as a human right."

it is not in the constitution. period.

JonathanL · Dec 17, 2009

It is in the constitution, in the preamble it says "promote the general welfare". Here's the link http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble Now if u wanted to be a strict constitutionalist, you would still consider a black person 3/5 of a person, so that argument doesn't hold any water

FLmomof5 · Dec 17, 2009

pro⋅mote /prəˈmoʊt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pruh-moht] Show IPA

Use promote in a Sentence

See web results for promote

See images of promote

-verb (used with object), -mot⋅ed, -mot⋅ing. 1.to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further: to promote world peace. 2.to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc. (opposed to demote ).3.Education. to put ahead to the next higher stage or grade of a course or series of classes.4.to aid in organizing (business undertakings).5.to encourage the sales, acceptance, etc., of (a product), esp. through advertising or other publicity.

Note it does not say "pay for" "give" "make someone else pay"

This country is based on equal opportunity not equal outcome. Don't like the fact that you don't have or can't afford insurance? Go to school, get an education, get a good job and BINGO! Insurance!

Next argument?

JonathanL · Dec 18, 2009

Sorry about this, i didn't want to get into a debate, but i will make a point. You're letting a point of view cloud common sense. Yes, you are paying for yourself to be covered, and yes, your money is going towards someone else having coverage. Everybody pitches money in so that everybody has coverage. That's what every other industrialized nation in the world does. It's common sense, and we should be doing it to, but as a country, we let either ideology, selfishness and shortsightedness cloud common sense. First we are braking our budgets because healthcare costs keep rising, making it harder & harder on our national budgets. Second, people get dropped from their insurance. It might not bother you, until it does happen to you. Third, I don't know if this appeals to you, but i will say this anyway. People are dying, in the richest country in the world, from illnesses that can be cured. If someone is dying in front of you, I don't think you would let something like payment cloud whether or not you would help them. Do you think that person should go totally bankrupt because of that? It doesn't make sense if their is a better way to run the system so that everyone can be covered, it's cheaper, and people aren't going bankrupt because of it. Well, that was my point of view :)

FLmomof5 · Dec 18, 2009

As one broadcaster said, if you want socialized Europe, you don't have to change the US, you are free to go there. They have socialized medicine...a guarantee, right? That is why a 21 yo died of Cirrhosis. He hadn't been alcohol free long enough. Mother's are given pain killers (doped up) so that they can then get pitocin so that they can deliver in an efficient fashion and get the heck out of the hospital! It saves money. If you are of a specific age, you are allowed pallitive care, saving lives is for the young.

Don't believe me. READ THEIR news.

They watch their folks die of curable situations as well.

With regard to me paying into a pot for others....no thank you. I did the right thing. I earned my place in this society. The "other" person didn't. It is called personal responsibility and consequences for actions or lack thereof. I *watched* as a large percentage of minority students at my children's HS skip school and then drop out. They deserve what they get. They HAD a chance. THEY made a CHOICE. I watched others attend class, graduate and go to college!

That is what this country is about. FREEDOM to succeed or fail as you choose! Note the number of older nursing students....(like me)...also proves, that in this country, it is never too late and age is a state of mind!

JonathanL · Dec 18, 2009

You're talking about succeeding or failing as you choose. Someone dying from an illness that could've been prevented and that person had insurance but was dropped is not freedom, that a load of bull. I'll be honest with you, i don't care if it's government, private, or even martians that run our healthcare system. But when you start rigging the system, so that people that do have insurance get dropped from their coverage, is not american, it's tyranny. I won't accept substandard care from either side, not from the government or private corporations. Now, let's put things in perspective. If someone has failed in school, and never tried, should they be denied police protection? I'll stop here, because i think on this subject, our views are irreconcilable, but I do believe in a strong nurses union, in order for nurses to have a greater capacity of decision making when it comes to nursing issues.

nicurn001 · Dec 18, 2009

With regard to me paying into a pot for others....no thank you. I did the right thing. I earned my place in this society. The "other" person didn't. It is called personal responsibility and consequences for actions or lack thereof. I *watched* as a large percentage of minority students at my children's HS skip school and then drop out. They deserve what they get. They HAD a chance. THEY made a CHOICE. I watched others attend class, graduate and go to college!

"With regard to me paying into a pot for others....no thank you". You are already doing this , this is how ANY insurance works , the premiums of the risk pool of insured are paid out to those who make a claim , so you already paying into a pot for others !

As to the rest of the para ,you are making a personal judgement upon SOME of the uninsured , then extrapolating that to all the uninsured , to justify your position . Many uninsured lost their insurance when they had a major illness , then could not afford to continue paying their premiums and now cannot get insurance in the private market .

Find comfort in your smug belief that thru bettering yourself you will be OK , but you only have to look through some of the previous threads , from and about nurses who have lost healthcare coverage to see how misplaced your confidence is .

JonathanL · Dec 18, 2009

"With regard to me paying into a pot for others....no thank you". You are already doing this , this is how ANY insurance works , the premiums of the risk pool of insured are paid out to those who make a claim , so you already paying into a pot for others !
As to the rest of the para ,you are making a personal judgement upon SOME of the uninsured , then extrapolating that to all the uninsured , to justify your position . Many uninsured lost their insurance when they had a major illness , then could not afford to continue paying their premiums and now cannot get insurance in the private market .
Find comfort in your smug belief that thru bettering yourself you will be OK , but you only have to look through some of the previous threads , from and about nurses who have lost healthcare coverage to see how misplaced your confidence is .

What do you mean no thank you, that's exactly what you're doing when you pay for health insurance!!! What do you think, it goes in a little box just for you, and whenever you need to pay for medical procedures, it comes out of that box??? The problem, is that we should do this on a national scale so that it's cheaper on everyone. It's simple math, THE MORE PEOPLE IN THE POT, THE LESS MONEY IT COSTS EVERYONE, INCLUDING YOUR EMPLOYER. Yes, you find comfort in that belief, until you're the one that comes down with a major illness and you get screwed. You want to call my belief smug, go ahead. I don't care about bettering myself, i care about people dying or going bankrupt in this country. 3/5 of all bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills by people that had insurance. I think that's more than just "some". These are peoples lives, what's so bettering about that. Enough with this "I got mine screw you" type of thinking, it's screwing up this country. And you know what, if you really believe in that, then you should suggest abolishing our socialized police and fire protection, and privatize it, so instead of it coming out of your taxes, you can just put it into a corporation, and whoever doesn't have money whenever they need help, can just get dropped.

FLmomof5 · Dec 21, 2009

For all those silly folks who harp that the government does a fine job....

The VA waited 6 yrs before giving my father a hearing aid!

Doctors won't take on any more gov't supported patients because they cannot afford the losses they suffer through reduced payments.

The VA hospitals have less money to work with than the "for profit" hospitals which is why the dems used it in their campaign prep about the horrendous conditions our soldiers deal with at VA hospitals....crumbling walls, mold, yadda yadda.

It is easy to be sheeple. DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNOWS WHAT IS IN THE SENATE BILL IS Harry Reid!?!?! So while you are all here promoting utopia, that is NOT what you are going to get! The bill has become "get me any bill" (Obama) from "healthcare for all and I won't sign it unless it is deficit neutral" (Obama). This has NOTHING that you think you are getting.

This is a fools piece of legislation that exists purely for the egomaniacal, narcissitcal fanaticism of our "esteemed leader".

You CANNOT say you know what is in it. Even the other 59 senators admit that they haven't even read it.

Yeah....leaders..... NOT!

nicurn001 · Dec 21, 2009

This is a fools piece of legislation that exists purely for the egomaniacal, narcissitcal fanaticism of our "esteemed leader".

While we are free to express our opinions , even when I despised some of what was being done by President G W Bush , I respected the democratic process and the post of President enough NOT to be disrepectful , in the way in which I referred to him . It does your cause no good that you can be so far gone in your views that you no longer honor the post of President .

As any member of the armed forces ( including myself ) know , you do not salute ( show respect )the person you salute the rank :twocents:

Onekidneynurse · Dec 21, 2009

Sorry about this, i didn't want to get into a debate, but i will make a point. You're letting a point of view cloud common sense. Yes, you are paying for yourself to be covered, and yes, your money is going towards someone else having coverage. Everybody pitches money in so that everybody has coverage. That's what every other industrialized nation in the world does. It's common sense, and we should be doing it to, but as a country, we let either ideology, selfishness and shortsightedness cloud common sense. First we are braking our budgets because healthcare costs keep rising, making it harder & harder on our national budgets. Second, people get dropped from their insurance. It might not bother you, until it does happen to you. Third, I don't know if this appeals to you, but i will say this anyway. People are dying, in the richest country in the world, from illnesses that can be cured. If someone is dying in front of you, I don't think you would let something like payment cloud whether or not you would help them. Do you think that person should go totally bankrupt because of that? It doesn't make sense if their is a better way to run the system so that everyone can be covered, it's cheaper, and people aren't going bankrupt because of it. Well, that was my point of view :)

Many of those countries are going bankrupt. Not just individuals but the whole country because of socialized medicine. Are you willing to subsidize every person in this country to go to med school. They do in France. Of course France has 1/3 the population of the USA so I believe they have fewer patients thus a need for fewer docs.

You don't suppose 2 wars are breaking the bank?

For every person you can name who hasn't been cared for I can name one who has had plenty of care. In an acute hospital for 9 months because they have a trach. And their state Medicaid won't pay for them to go to a NH in a state that would take them. Medicaid would rather pay a hospital in a neighboring state than put the patient in a NH in a different state.

Why do you think health CARE will be cheaper? People go bankrupt for many reasons. Medical bills are rarely the SOLE reason for bankruptcy. But remember when they do go through medical bankruptcy they still got the healthcare for FREE.