MeggieA 700 Views
Joined: Jan 24, '13;
Posts: 25 (32% Liked)
; Likes: 13
Of course it is.There is absolutely no other way it can ever be safe, now that corporations and profits are the ruling factors.
Not applicable? It's the same rationale. And yes, it is surprising that those so willing to sacrifice patient safety to make a questionable supported point about personal autonomy managed to graduate from Nursing School.
Yes, handwashing (ie hand hygiene) is strictly monitored in many hospitals, we have people that just follow people around making sure they do this, and yes it's absolutely expected that this is done between patients, this includes everyone, not just Nurses.
mariebailey --with all due respect, that comment was not called for.
I think the people posting/reading this thread are NOT psychotic, paranoid or members of a radical group. I dont think anyone is wearing a tin foil hat. By the way-- I think you mean aluminum foil hat? They don't make "tin foil" anymore........
I think people posting here have concerns and are voicing those over a free internet forum consisting of fellow professionals.
Yes--we do get off topic sometimes--its an internet forum----!
yes--some of us to feel like we have no say so in some of the decisions that others make that heavily influence our lives. Decisions that don't make any sense to us.
The focus here is the mandatory flu vaccination. If you have been following developments concerning this mandate I think you will begin to see that the hospitals that have acted interdependently in making this mandate, are beginning to see that perhaps that wasn't the best thing to do.
Just because others don't agree with your pro flu vaccination beliefs doesnt mean you have to become disrespectful.
i am sorry for your situation Jenni--but I want to give you kudos for your stand and your actions.
THIS WILL BE AN INTERESTING CASE!!
I retired instead of continuing--so I really cant do what you have done, but I agree hospitals are standing on shaky legal ground.
The hospital I retired from has started to even cancel surgeries on the Dr's ( independent contractors) that have not had the flu shot! Dr's are starting to get angry. Perhaps that will be the catalyst that is needed for logical minds to prevail.
Please keep us informed of your situation and I will be willing to sign a petition etc if needed? Anything I can do to help.
You are aware that OSHA will not get behind mandating the flu shot, yes?
PalmHarbourMom - the thing is, I am not set in my views. Show me arguments enough to erase reasonable doubt and I will change my view. My goal is directed toward patient health. And I certainly have reason for reasonable doubt regarding vaccines. It seems every day I am reading about major problems affecting lots of people related to vaccine side effects. Telling me that evidence is not there is not opening your eyes.
Nursing by profession is at times too complacent. Why do ya'll think that occurs?
What single patient focused standard has Nursing on a national level said they will not do? I am not speaking about the general statements--we will not do anything not ethical etc.
What specific thing has Nursing on a national level taken a stand on? Nurse to patient ratios--no? Proper infection control techniques enforced--no. Working mandatory overtime--no. Working too long of a shift ( 16 hrs+) --no. Professional autonomy --no ( I know of nursing departments being managed by non nurses, nursing policies developed without nursing input--etc).
Unfortunately Unions are the only thing that can bring a single voice to others that I am aware of. Now I am not pro union, but if it gets down to them versus us--unions may become more prevalent.
Conspiracy theory? I think maybe there is a misunderstanding in that regard. I perceive " they" as being those that are mandating this vaccination. "They" do control a lot now a days. Monitoring every keystroke, monitoring your position while at work, video cameras in halls. elevators and outside the facility. "They" are also monitoring your activity while away from work--speaking about something "they" dont like on facebook can get you fired for example. I don't think its a conspiracy ( agaisnt what?) but the fact remains we have lost a LOT of privacy. We have lost a lot of privacy in our lives and now others are telling us we must receive this so called vaccine or lose your job. I think we are getting mad. That could be a good thing.
MeggieA--I dont know if I know you? Great minds think alike? lol
I live in Ga.
I am glad you see the points I was trying to make in my post. If Nursing is to be accepted by other "professions" as a true profession ( sadly many times it is not) we need to practice critical thinking and question the things that are occurring around us.
This mandated flu vaccination is one. Could you imagine what would happen if no nurse in the united states would accept a mandated flu vaccination? I do wish we had a stronger national voice.
Like laidbacl al has posted we all need to educate ourselves and not just take what certain publications publish as the facts. The CDC is biased toward influenza vaccinations for example. If you do not believe that ..i urge you to research. Now the CDC is not participating in any conspiratorial theory's lol I dont mean that, but they do have a tendency to present statistics greatly in favor of influenza vaccination efficiency. Look into that.
The influenza vaccination effectiveness depends basically on 2 factors: These being:
1-if it is a good match with the virus's that are causing influenza infections this year
2-how well the persons immunity system reacts with the vaccine ( more than a small percentage of people do not react favorably with it).
Now if your immune system did not react to the vaccine in the way it is "suppose" too then you will not be protected. You have no way of knowing if the vaccination "took" or not. This means that yes you still can get influenza even though you received the flu shot.
I know as nurses we personalty know people that this has happened too.
Does this make the flu shot bad? No! It just means that we need to be aware of the limitations of influenza vaccinations and act appropriately.
As far as hospitals making the flu shot mandatory--why do you think this is all of a sudden mandatory? The flu shot has been available for a more than a decade. What changed? Why, all of a sudden hospitals decided to do this? If you think it is for patient protection--does that mean that during all those previous years the hospitals were not interested in patient protection?
Really think about this Nurses--dont just react to it.
Yes I get that my employer doesn't care about me and my health. I care about what goes into my body. Has anyone on here ever looked at the ingredients in the flu shot? Most contain mercury, which is not something I am thrilled about putting in my body. Some contain other forms of preservatives as well.
I do not take the flu shot..I am opposed to putting foriegn anything into my body that isn't completly necessary.I am 48 years old & have been in the medical field for 30 years (CNA, LPN, RN)...I have an awesome immune system & (as I am knocking on wood), I rarely ever get sick. I think I have called in maybe 2 times in the past 5 years. Many of my younger colleages have had terrible flu symptoms this year (even with getting the flu vaccine). I believe since I have been exposed to so much crud over the years & this has boosted my immune system. I also am very vigilant with hand washing (soap & water for me, no alcohol gel). I also believe that God protects us who care for others. I strongly believe that taking the flu shot should be a choice and not mandated by anyone! Stay well everyone through this flu season
Again, they're not holding anyone down and giving them the vaccination against their will -- they're just saying that, if you don't want to take the shot, you're welcome to seek employment elsewhere, somewhere that doesn't have that as a condition of employment. Aren't employers also "the free and the brave"? They have the right to set whatever workplace and employee conditions they see as necessary to promote good care and outcomes in their workplaces, as long as they're not violating state or Federal labor and EO laws. And employees have the right to work somewhere else if they don't like a particular facility/organization's requirements. "Freedom" cuts both ways.
First, it's not illegal. The doesn't actually require employers to honor religious beliefs, they just need a business related reason not to, an argument hospitals can make.
Second, opposition to vaccines isn't a religious belief. It's a personal belief held by people who sometimes also happens to be religious. Legally, religious beliefs have to be well established and commonly held within a particular religious group. The basis of a religion based opposition to vaccines is that preventing disease interferes with God's plan, which would then also mean one would have to shun healthcare in general to cite a religious opposition. A Nurse trying to argue that they consider the prevention or treatment of disease to be a sin is pretty much an opposing lawyer's wet dream.
Oh geez, I really don't think this has anything to do with protecting the patients or even the staff. The hospitals are doing this more with the financial bottom-line in mind. You really want to protect patients? Provide adequate staffing. Not just in numbers, but well rested, not overworked. Give all staff a gym membership and a monthly gift card to a health food store. The key to a healthy immune system is a lot more than just a few shots.
I know everyone is different. Some people get the flu shot every year and stay healthy that way. Personally, the years I have gotten sickest were those I had to get the flu shot (in nursing school). Every year since, I have turned it down, and barely gotten the sniffles.
I have a pretty healthy immune system on my own and don't see the point in forcibly injecting even an attenuated virus into my body. At my office, 3-4 of the ladies have had the flu. I hope I am not jinxing myself, but so far, nada for me. Close environment, poor air circulation and all.
I'm not saying no one should be getting it, nor am I saying everyone should. I would be totally fine with having the option of 'get the shot or wear the mask'. Mask for me, any day.
Given the current amount of scientific evidence out there, I cannot help but wonder if forced compliance is warranted. The fact of the matter is, the vaccine does not provide 100% protection, and with this in mind....the argument for mandatory immunization rapidly falls into the realm of fallacy.
On the other hand....I can't imagine working with immunocompromised patients and not getting my flu shot!!! No way. I get the shot, and sleep better at night because of it.
At the end of the day, however, both perspectives offer compelling evidence, and both perspectives deserve respect. What I (personally) find counter-productive are the, "well if you don't like it, go seek work somewhere else" comments. This, to me, is sour grapes. People SHOULD question whether or not their conceptual rights/civil liberties are being infringed upon.
On the other hand, refusing the flu shot does place our patients at significant risk....is this appropriate and ethical nursing care?
What professional associations support mandated influenza vaccination among Health Care Personnel?
* American Academy of Family Physicians
* American Academy of Pediatrics
* American College of Physicians
* American Hospital Association
* American Medical Directors Association
* American Pharmacists Association
* American Public Health Association
* Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology
* Infectious Diseases Society of America
* National Business Group on Health
* National Foundation for Infectious Diseases
* National Patient Safety Foundation
* Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America
Nursing Center - Journal Article
Early Estimates of Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness-United States, January 2013
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