When my son got old enough that he would see other boys at a urinal or in a locker room (he's a hockey player), I explained what circumcision involved, and told him that I viewed it as something that was a personal choice rather than a medical necessity, and when he's 18yo if he wants to be circumcised, he can make that decision himself.
His eyes got wide and he thanked me profusely for not cutting off part of his penis. He can't understand why anyone would ever WANT to do that if they didn't have to!
FWIW, I feel the same way about piercings. While I do think that a middle-school aged child (male or female) should be allowed to make a decision on conventional ear piercing without waiting until adulthood, other areas -- eyebrows / nose / lip / belly button -- and things like those "stretched out" earlobes (visible shudder!) should be off-limits until the age of majority has been reached.
Regarding infant circumcision being preferable to the "possible need" to circumcise an adult, until we start prophylactically removing every newborn's appendix, I see it all as a cop-out. Because I have to tell you, getting your appendix out as a newborn who can't sit up, roll over, walk, etc., is WAY preferable to getting it removed as a teenager who loses out on a big part of the summer that could have been spent waterskiiing, or as an adult who ends up with weeks to months off work (and often without pay) while recuperating. So how come we don't remove every newborn appendix? Because we KNOW that a small number of them WILL need to have their appendix removed at some point in the future, so why not take them out at birth and avoid all the fuss later?
OP - I think I understand where you are coming from. You worked for years to get into a program and now that it happened for you, you question why anyone would want to give that up. You think that way because it means so much to you. If it means this much to you, it must mean a lot to other students so how can they just give it up?
Like other posts have said, they usually do not do it voluntarily. In my cohort, we have only lost a handful of students which is surprising given how rigorous the program is. I am also in an ABSN program, it takes 22 months. For some of the students, I am not entirely sure what their GPA was but I know they also had extenuating family circumstances such as a deployed spouse, long commuting time from their family's house, etc.
A word of note - sometimes AN posts are not all pink and rosy. I think you were sincerely looking for reasons on why students voluntarily leave their nursing programs, but sometimes people will read more into your posts especially when you include information about yourself. When that happens, you get harsh posts and criticisms sometimes mixed in with the answers you were looking for. As you will find in nursing school, you will need to develop thick skin and take everything with a grain of salt.
Enjoy the precious time you have with your family now and good luck with nursing school! It will get crazy.
When I taught in an ASN program we routinely admitted about 25% more students than we needed because we knew in about three weeks our offices were going to be full of weeping students who were voluntarily leaving the program without flunking first. They all said something like, "I always wanted to be a nurse like my mom/auntie/cousin/Cherry Ames," and had no idea what they would do c their lives after they dropped that dream.
The major reasons were they didn't know how hard it was going to be, they thought it was all fluffing pillows and "following doctor's orders," they didn't realize nursing has rigorous demands for autonomy and critical thinking, they just found out they couldn't bear the thought of touching a naked body (especially the elderly), because they discovered that they couldn't handle seeing/smelling feces/urine/vomitus, they didn't realize how much hard science and math nurses needed to learn, or they were going to have to do adult health as well as "mother-baby" in school.
I think that may answer your original question, because I don't see anything like it in this thread so far.
I guess I'm one of those people, too. I love my program, I love what I'm learning, I love my professors. It's a very tough program to get into, and occasionally someone flunks out. But the professors give 110% and if you meet them halfway they will do everything they can to help you succeed.
I've read a lot of posts where people tell horror stories about their programs, so I know there are bad ones out there. So, one thing I would say to prospective nursing students is, "Choose Wisely!" (I guess that quote gives me away as a non-traditional, older student :-) But I mean that. Talk to current and former students, and if possible talk with local employers. There is one local community college program that is not very well regarded. I spoke with someone from a local hospital the other day and they said that they don't even interview RN's who graduated from that program. On the other hand, there is another community college program nearby, and their ADN graduates are highly sought after because their program is excellent. I know, too, that sometimes you just don't have a choice. Like, there's one community college in a hundred mile radius, you have kids and responsibilities and you take what you can get. That brings me to my second thought.
Even if you don't have much choice about which program you can attend, you do have a choice about how you go through it. Half of it is attitude and the other half is sweat. If you are eager to learn, then at least one of your professors will respond. If you apply yourself sincerely, then you will see results. (And I agree with the original post - it's nice to get A's, but B's are fine, too. If you're worried about having a B average, then do some extra volunteering, or take on some organizational responsibility in school. Enthusiasm is contagious and most employers like it.) Stay focused and don't get hooked by the inevitable drama of school, whether it involves students or faculty. Stay focused and don't let yourself become intimidated by the work, or by a crummy school or a poor professor. Also, and I think this is important, allow yourself to become inspired by someone: a professor, a preceptor, a nurse who you've interviewed or met somewhere, a nurse who's cared for you, a nurse you read about... let yourself be inspired and you will have more energy for school, and for your career.
There is no getting around the fact that nursing school is work, but honestly, it can also be a blast!
hahah I share your sentiments! I love nursing school as well. As hard as I have worked to get here, it has been everything I thought it would be and more.
I have made some awesome lifelong friends (and hopefully coworkers). I will never forget my wonderful, fabulous, helpful, patient instructors for without their knowledge and expertise, I would not be the student nurse that I am today. My program has a great reputation in our community and now I know why.
I love learning about medicine as well nursing and I eat up the knowledge ravenously. I will never forget my time in nursing school. I think what helped was having to wait so damn long to get in (FOUR years). In those four years, I took an EMT class, become a hospital housekeeper and just recently moved up to being a CNA there. As difficult as it is and as stressful it has been, I wouldn't change any of it.
No, the NCLEX style questions aren't awesome. But they make you think! And when you learn the rationale behind the answer you should have picked, you learn how to be a better critical thinker. I actually LIKE that!
I've also decided I'm a B student in nursing school. I am okay with that. I have kids. I have responsibilities beyond school. I can only dedicate so much of my attention to nursing school. But I'm okay with it! I have Bs in my classes right now and that's just fine by me!
My school has a super interactive curriculum and I feel like if you don't learn it, you must have just slept through it completely because what we learn in theory is reinforced in practice. The assignments might get overwhelming some days, but we learn from them. Maybe it seems crazy to write up a teaching plan on one drug, but you now know about that drug and how to think through a teaching plan. There is a difference between learning how to do a teaching plan, and actually doing one.
Our clinicals will finally be taking us to the hospital the week after this coming week. So far we've just done skills and a senior center experience. Maybe my first semester excitement is giving me a premature boost in enthusiasm for the program, but we're halfway through the semester and I find myself excited that we still have 7 weeks left. I love learning. I love my instructors (even when we don't see eye to eye).
I get what you all are saying, I in no way am trying to offend anyone. Understand that please. I just don't understand why people spend so much time and effort just to drop out. I have fought for this for so many years. I started out 11 years ago, fresh out of high school and got terrible grades and quit. I got married and then watched/helped my husband complete both his undergrad and grad degrees (6 years)...long nights and days. I have been completing my prerequisite courses for 4 years now for nursing, 4 long years of busting my butt for straight A's to make up for my past mistakes that brought my GPA down so low that no nursing school would look at me at first. After raising my GPA up and having 2 more children (one of which is special needs) I could not imagine dropping out. I am not saying that those individuals that do are wrong to do so nor am I saying that they are weak or anything of the sort but I know it is hard work to get into nursing school, at least it was for me. I know it will only get harder and I am not complaining. It is not impossible though, that I know. If there is a will, there is a way. I just wish my family and friends were more supportive that is all.
Haha, I bet horse and buggy would be faster than my neighborhoods mail system! Yikes. I feel relieved someone else in Portland is still without a letter, too. Woooo-sawwww...lol!
FutureRN07-
I do beleive the GPA for entrance is close to or even equal to 3.7. I had a 3.8 and I knew a few people who didn't do as well in their pre-requisite classes and had a lower GPA, how low, I don't know. I think if you are in the range of 3.4-4.0 you are okay. At least that is my feeling about it. If you do go to Linfield be prepared to be a little broke for years to come after graduation unles you are the lucky few who get a lot of grantsa dn they don't worry about money. Me, I have $30,000 in debt! OUCH!
Anyways, anymore questions about Linfield I can try to awnser them the bst I can remember. Curleysue
Does the GPA include all of the classes that have been taken or just the prereqs? I know that a couple schools look only at the prereq GPA while others look at your entire GPA. I'm going crazy not knowing if I'm going to get accepted or not! I just wish I knew exactly what the acceptence criteria was and then I could rest east. I'm sure everyone goes through the same thing while they wait but it sucks.
Thanks for the uplifting words, gkash! I'm terribly nervous. I keep thinking any day now we could get early letters... Probably not, but the 1st seems so far away :P
Hope you have a restful weekend! I'm prepping for my last term of pre-reqs. Man, summer went much too quickly.
Excellent article Juan - you have hit the nail on the head. The business degree is the way to go IMHO. I actually was enrolled in a dual MSN/MBA but dropped the MBA part because business was soooo boring. However, 7 years later I deeply regret it. Like you, I'm an experienced clinician, I've done over 1100 hours of clinical for my two CNS certificates and I've been a practicing APN since 2006. However, I would like more of a business focus as I (like you) feel that APNs need a business focus in order to succeed.
To be honest, I'm not sure how much useful knowledge an MBA, in most cases, would confer. An accounting degree — maybe. An MBA is more of a checkoff item if your applying for a corporate management position, but I think corporate managers for the past ten years or so have gotten over the idea that having an MBA necessarily makes one a good manager.
You can get a roughly equivalent education from books.
I have wanted to be a Nurse since I was 13 (I am now 52). Due to life getting in the way I am just now in my 2nd semester of Clinicals. It is a full time job. My son just turned 19. I did my pre-reqs when he was young while working a full time job and I regret the time away from him. I am going to go way off the wall here and recommend that you stay home with those babies for a while. You will not regret one minute of time that you spend with them when you are done. Take some classes here and there if you can work it out with your husband but don't take the time away from your babies. They are more important than anything else in this life. The rest can wait.
When my son got old enough that he would see other boys at a urinal or in a locker room (he's a hockey player), I explained what circumcision involved, and told him that I viewed it as something that was a personal choice rather than a medical necessity, and when he's 18yo if he wants to be circumcised, he can make that decision himself.
His eyes got wide and he thanked me profusely for not cutting off part of his penis. He can't understand why anyone would ever WANT to do that if they didn't have to!
FWIW, I feel the same way about piercings. While I do think that a middle-school aged child (male or female) should be allowed to make a decision on conventional ear piercing without waiting until adulthood, other areas -- eyebrows / nose / lip / belly button -- and things like those "stretched out" earlobes (visible shudder!) should be off-limits until the age of majority has been reached.
Regarding infant circumcision being preferable to the "possible need" to circumcise an adult, until we start prophylactically removing every newborn's appendix, I see it all as a cop-out. Because I have to tell you, getting your appendix out as a newborn who can't sit up, roll over, walk, etc., is WAY preferable to getting it removed as a teenager who loses out on a big part of the summer that could have been spent waterskiiing, or as an adult who ends up with weeks to months off work (and often without pay) while recuperating. So how come we don't remove every newborn appendix? Because we KNOW that a small number of them WILL need to have their appendix removed at some point in the future, so why not take them out at birth and avoid all the fuss later?
OP - I think I understand where you are coming from. You worked for years to get into a program and now that it happened for you, you question why anyone would want to give that up. You think that way because it means so much to you. If it means this much to you, it must mean a lot to other students so how can they just give it up?
Like other posts have said, they usually do not do it voluntarily. In my cohort, we have only lost a handful of students which is surprising given how rigorous the program is. I am also in an ABSN program, it takes 22 months. For some of the students, I am not entirely sure what their GPA was but I know they also had extenuating family circumstances such as a deployed spouse, long commuting time from their family's house, etc.
A word of note - sometimes AN posts are not all pink and rosy. I think you were sincerely looking for reasons on why students voluntarily leave their nursing programs, but sometimes people will read more into your posts especially when you include information about yourself. When that happens, you get harsh posts and criticisms sometimes mixed in with the answers you were looking for. As you will find in nursing school, you will need to develop thick skin and take everything with a grain of salt.
Enjoy the precious time you have with your family now and good luck with nursing school! It will get crazy.
When I taught in an ASN program we routinely admitted about 25% more students than we needed because we knew in about three weeks our offices were going to be full of weeping students who were voluntarily leaving the program without flunking first. They all said something like, "I always wanted to be a nurse like my mom/auntie/cousin/Cherry Ames," and had no idea what they would do c their lives after they dropped that dream.
The major reasons were they didn't know how hard it was going to be, they thought it was all fluffing pillows and "following doctor's orders," they didn't realize nursing has rigorous demands for autonomy and critical thinking, they just found out they couldn't bear the thought of touching a naked body (especially the elderly), because they discovered that they couldn't handle seeing/smelling feces/urine/vomitus, they didn't realize how much hard science and math nurses needed to learn, or they were going to have to do adult health as well as "mother-baby" in school.
I think that may answer your original question, because I don't see anything like it in this thread so far.
I guess I'm one of those people, too. I love my program, I love what I'm learning, I love my professors. It's a very tough program to get into, and occasionally someone flunks out. But the professors give 110% and if you meet them halfway they will do everything they can to help you succeed.
I've read a lot of posts where people tell horror stories about their programs, so I know there are bad ones out there. So, one thing I would say to prospective nursing students is, "Choose Wisely!" (I guess that quote gives me away as a non-traditional, older student :-) But I mean that. Talk to current and former students, and if possible talk with local employers. There is one local community college program that is not very well regarded. I spoke with someone from a local hospital the other day and they said that they don't even interview RN's who graduated from that program. On the other hand, there is another community college program nearby, and their ADN graduates are highly sought after because their program is excellent. I know, too, that sometimes you just don't have a choice. Like, there's one community college in a hundred mile radius, you have kids and responsibilities and you take what you can get. That brings me to my second thought.
Even if you don't have much choice about which program you can attend, you do have a choice about how you go through it. Half of it is attitude and the other half is sweat. If you are eager to learn, then at least one of your professors will respond. If you apply yourself sincerely, then you will see results. (And I agree with the original post - it's nice to get A's, but B's are fine, too. If you're worried about having a B average, then do some extra volunteering, or take on some organizational responsibility in school. Enthusiasm is contagious and most employers like it.) Stay focused and don't get hooked by the inevitable drama of school, whether it involves students or faculty. Stay focused and don't let yourself become intimidated by the work, or by a crummy school or a poor professor. Also, and I think this is important, allow yourself to become inspired by someone: a professor, a preceptor, a nurse who you've interviewed or met somewhere, a nurse who's cared for you, a nurse you read about... let yourself be inspired and you will have more energy for school, and for your career.
There is no getting around the fact that nursing school is work, but honestly, it can also be a blast!
hahah I share your sentiments! I love nursing school as well. As hard as I have worked to get here, it has been everything I thought it would be and more.
I have made some awesome lifelong friends (and hopefully coworkers). I will never forget my wonderful, fabulous, helpful, patient instructors for without their knowledge and expertise, I would not be the student nurse that I am today. My program has a great reputation in our community and now I know why.
I love learning about medicine as well nursing and I eat up the knowledge ravenously. I will never forget my time in nursing school. I think what helped was having to wait so damn long to get in (FOUR years). In those four years, I took an EMT class, become a hospital housekeeper and just recently moved up to being a CNA there. As difficult as it is and as stressful it has been, I wouldn't change any of it.
TEN MORE WEEKS TILL PINNING FOR ME, OMG
I. LOVE. Nursing school.
There. I said it.
No, the NCLEX style questions aren't awesome. But they make you think! And when you learn the rationale behind the answer you should have picked, you learn how to be a better critical thinker. I actually LIKE that!
I've also decided I'm a B student in nursing school. I am okay with that. I have kids. I have responsibilities beyond school. I can only dedicate so much of my attention to nursing school. But I'm okay with it! I have Bs in my classes right now and that's just fine by me!
My school has a super interactive curriculum and I feel like if you don't learn it, you must have just slept through it completely because what we learn in theory is reinforced in practice. The assignments might get overwhelming some days, but we learn from them. Maybe it seems crazy to write up a teaching plan on one drug, but you now know about that drug and how to think through a teaching plan. There is a difference between learning how to do a teaching plan, and actually doing one.
Our clinicals will finally be taking us to the hospital the week after this coming week. So far we've just done skills and a senior center experience. Maybe my first semester excitement is giving me a premature boost in enthusiasm for the program, but we're halfway through the semester and I find myself excited that we still have 7 weeks left. I love learning. I love my instructors (even when we don't see eye to eye).
Yup. I'm one of THOSE people.
I get what you all are saying, I in no way am trying to offend anyone. Understand that please. I just don't understand why people spend so much time and effort just to drop out. I have fought for this for so many years. I started out 11 years ago, fresh out of high school and got terrible grades and quit. I got married and then watched/helped my husband complete both his undergrad and grad degrees (6 years)...long nights and days. I have been completing my prerequisite courses for 4 years now for nursing, 4 long years of busting my butt for straight A's to make up for my past mistakes that brought my GPA down so low that no nursing school would look at me at first. After raising my GPA up and having 2 more children (one of which is special needs) I could not imagine dropping out. I am not saying that those individuals that do are wrong to do so nor am I saying that they are weak or anything of the sort but I know it is hard work to get into nursing school, at least it was for me. I know it will only get harder and I am not complaining. It is not impossible though, that I know. If there is a will, there is a way. I just wish my family and friends were more supportive that is all.
It's okay, I know what I have to do for next time. And today I need to finish this chapter on the respiratory system!
Haha, I bet horse and buggy would be faster than my neighborhoods mail system! Yikes. I feel relieved someone else in Portland is still without a letter, too. Woooo-sawwww...lol!
Hang in there ladies.....I am sure you will get GREAT news tomorrow
Does the GPA include all of the classes that have been taken or just the prereqs? I know that a couple schools look only at the prereq GPA while others look at your entire GPA. I'm going crazy not knowing if I'm going to get accepted or not! I just wish I knew exactly what the acceptence criteria was and then I could rest east. I'm sure everyone goes through the same thing while they wait but it sucks.
Hey guys!! Just checking in
Thanks for the uplifting words, gkash! I'm terribly nervous. I keep thinking any day now we could get early letters... Probably not, but the 1st seems so far away :P
Hope you have a restful weekend! I'm prepping for my last term of pre-reqs. Man, summer went much too quickly.
Anyone starting to feel sort of surreal knowing in that ~one month's time we will know what our future holds?? Ahhh!!
You can get a roughly equivalent education from books.
I have wanted to be a Nurse since I was 13 (I am now 52). Due to life getting in the way I am just now in my 2nd semester of Clinicals. It is a full time job. My son just turned 19. I did my pre-reqs when he was young while working a full time job and I regret the time away from him. I am going to go way off the wall here and recommend that you stay home with those babies for a while. You will not regret one minute of time that you spend with them when you are done. Take some classes here and there if you can work it out with your husband but don't take the time away from your babies. They are more important than anything else in this life. The rest can wait.