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mrmedical 4,852 Views

Joined: Nov 2, '09; Posts: 103 (45% Liked) ; Likes: 163
from US
Specialty: Oncology

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  • Dec 25 '12

    Ya sure. Since paper, pen and the printing press were the only form of media available when the 1st Ammendment came about we should ban radio, TV and the internet. After all the internet provides a medium for the rapid disimination of child porn and makes possible the spreading of terrorists ideologies. Certainly cell phones must be banned since there weren't around when the constitution was signed and they are often used to detonate IEDs and murder people.
    Sheesh, your logic sort of freaks me out.
    The difference is that no one and no organization has said that there is a constitutionally gaurenteed right to the internet, TV and cell phones

  • Dec 3 '12

    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    Well, i'm not going to give you 'hate', lol, but, i have a few thoughts which came to mind as i read your post.

    Yes, yes, it's a well documented, undeniable fact that males ARE generally paid more. Glad for ya!! And you have done something right, that you got to be the boss for many years. Good on you.

    and yes, there are those who feel physical labor IS what makes a job 'hard'. And no doubt, it does.

    But, nursing is also a very physical job, probably even more so in the past, for the bulk of my career, before units were designed more efficiently and we usually logged 8 miles per shift of footsteps. (we checked, with those odometers)

    and that was back before hoyers were more than one per hospital (for real, that's all a hosp had, we had to take turns all over) so much much lifting and pulling was done, many times every shift, and this was before body mechanics were as promoted as much as that topic is today.

    I've worked ER or ICU much of my career,
    and that ER unit was not usually as physically taxing as some units are, for several reasons,
    there is usually less "pulling the patient up in his bed", which, when done bazillions of times per shift, takes a toll on a person's back, shoulders, wrists, etc. and there are usually more males around to assist in the heavy lifting when in the ER, too, and hoyers right there,
    so your wife's summary
    of how physically demanding ER nursing is,
    Might not be applicable to all nurses
    working in all various types of settings
    on this thread.

    What you might consider physically hard, as a male, (and i'm picturing you are probably a strong person, since you did physical labor) might be slightly different than what a smaller person might consider physically demanding or straining.
    For many of us, turning a 400 lb patient who has diarrhea back and forth, frequently, to clean that person, over and over is physically demanding, and arguably, just as disgusting as as your description of cleaning ships.

    I can't wait til you put on your first pair of TED hose onto a really large large person. Get back to me after you have. (kind of joke, most nurses will nod at that, it's hard!)

    When i was young RN, being mentored by seasoned RNs, long ago, they ALL had bad backs, or had recovered from a back injury, it was part of the job. Guaranteed back then, and it is still a risk today. Many had multiple other injuries as well. Tons of boosting, turning, transferring, catching, lifting, twisting, scurrying nonstop is done by many nurses.

    There are different kinds of " physically hard".

    Many nurses have been physically assaulted at their jobs, from mildly to severely, and this is something unusual in most other professions. I've had a 6-4 250lb patient, (head injury) grab my neck and wrench my head to the side, and it was years and years til i was ever '100% right' again, but, luckily, i recovered. (no doctor appt, nothing, just walked it off, over time).

    While we were transferring a 400lb one-legged patient from wheelchair to bed, her one good leg gave out, and my forearm, in her armpit ----took the bulk of her body weight all at once, and to this day, whenever i raise up my right arm, it goes numb. But, she did not fall.

    I once sustained a very very scarey needle stick from an HIV patient, (didn't catch it, but, it felt like the beginning of a 'made for tv' movie for a while, til i was in the clear again.) made that neck injury seem like a piece of cake, really.

    I could bore for a few more paragraphs on various injuries i've sustained, and for a few pages on injuries i've stood witness to, upon my fellow nurses. Tons of 'em.

    Who knows, if we could hypothetically line up injured coworkers, in our two fields, who knows which of us would have the higher % of injured coworkers?

    There are different kinds of "filthy".

    I garden, and get covered in earth, and i work on cars,
    yet, i don't feel nearly as 'filthy' as i do when i am vomited on, when someone throws their colostomy onto my hair, when i have some strangers blood on my skin, when some deathly ill person's green phlegm is on me, or when i get urinated on, long list of other ways to get filthy as a nurse.

    There are different kinds of stress.

    For some humans, moving heavy items repetitively might be the worst kind of stress, but, for some humans, knowing if you make even a slight error, you could orphan some child, is a type of stress, too. Having upset families scream at you, or even throw things around, is a stress, too. Having doctors scream you out, can be demeaning/stressful. Knowing you can't really control getting off work on time, and the impact that can have for parents, (or anyone) is a stress.

    Sometimes, dealing with an unpredictable parade of humans all of whom are stressed out, can make cleaning ships seem appealing.

    Only having time for lunch break once per week is stress, as is not being able to have even five minutes to get to the restroom, cuz you are that busy, is a stress. Being able to remember all 7 of things you need to do right now, is a stress, and it can stay that speed allll dayyyyy long. And at end of day, instead of being appreciated,
    you might be scolded for not being done on time.
    Having to stay abreast of an always changing body of knowledge, mental stress, emotional stress, all kinds of stressors.
    some humans find intellectual demands just as draining or exhausting, as cleaning ships might be.

    I do not mean to disrespect your work, at all, nope. I've done hard labor myself, it is hard. I'm just suggesting, that nursing can be hard in all types of different ways. And when drywallers are sometimes paid the same as nurses,
    there might be something here to consider.

    and re: the "handout" that Carla has paid into each and every paycheck she's ever made, that YOU would refuse if you were making $10 per hour,
    If you are referring to the Carla described by the OP,
    i am proud of Carla for doing whatever it took to ensure her 3 kids were not in dire poverty. There's not a lot i would not do for my kids, either, and if i had to swallow my pride, to ensure i could obtain the proper amounts of protein, to pay the heat bills, get them coats, etc, oh yeah, GULP, i'd find a way to swallow my pride. Yes, i would, i'd do it for my kids, indeed.

    sometimes, it just best not to throw stones, til you have walked a mile as single mom raising 3 kids on minimum wage, paying childcare and everything else.. i'm just sayin.

    EDIT----ps, the poverty stricken are sometimes disproportionately amongst the severely sick in the USA, so you might want to consider, trying to develop a more compassionate, less judgmental view for those that do take govt aide to feed their kids.(IF you harbor such a view, not sure) If you do go into nursing, you might be interacting with quite a few of them.
    That was a long post...You seem insulted. I look at some "hating" as when a person gets upset and tries to pick apart someone negatively, using biased views or lack of experience of the broad spectrum, using only one prespective.

    I can assure you the pay scale is the same for everyone at the shipyard man or woman, the Naval station makes sure of that. And cleaning out Feces in water tanks where workers and sailors have died from H2S gases I'm sure are not the same as your sugesting.
    I'm absolutely sure you do not want to compare accident ratios in the workplace, since health insurance is more than three times of a normal job, simply because of the total amount of workman's comp. claims.
    I was born in a single wide trailer at home, I was a high school drop out (completed 8th grade), I worked 80+ hours a week, I was absolutely not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. And feel the same way a my close RN friend that came here from Africa with $43 dollars in his pocket working his way from Mcdonald's, to CNA, to LPN, to RN with no government assistance.
    I have been married for 18 years...with only one child because I knew me and my wife really could not afford any more children. I would like to have had more children, but that would not be responsible of me. I have learned from others around me...I was surounded by poverty, because that's how I grew up. When people have more children than they can substain on their own, that should be their issue, I do not feel sympathy for bad choices, but I do have a lot of empathy. I can teach people the right way, but if they don't follow suggestions they suffer the burden. (sounds familiar?)

    Your post was really long, and doubt you have ever seen what pair of my shoes look like. So breaking down your post would be quite a very long post I am not going to spend time on.
    Some of the comparisons did give me quite a laugh. I'm getting ready to start as a nurse....lets say you start as a Shipyard worker? It's quite amusing that I've at least done clinicals in a health facility, and you, most likely, have never seen the inside of a shipyard.....and your the one talking about "walking a mile in ones shoes".

    My wife was a floor nurse right out of school, she just tranferred to the ER...btw. Me and my wife share the same views and she is exceling as a Nurse. I'm sure I will develop my own way of dealing with many different types, though the wealthier type of people are going to be new to

  • Dec 3 '12

    Quote from BostonTerrierLoverRN
    I believe taking care of the weak in our society is what makes the USA Great.
    I believe helping the the weak in our society take care of themselves is what makes the USA Great.

    I'm not saying throw the kids in the street and let them starve. I'm saying provide "just enough" for them to survive. If the parents are living the "good life," for free, what incentive do they have to take care of themselves. As a poster above said better than I can say it "Use children as your reason to succeed, not as an excuse to give up."

  • Nov 28 '12

    I learned the hard way, the only one you should be loyal to is you. If you take the stance that you will do the best job you can no matter where you are, no matter who's in charge, no matter who owns what, then you will be happy and free to make crucial decisions about your career without the guilt trip. As soon as you get rid of that "owned" mentality, you will be a force to be reckoned with. You can run your work life, and be the captain of your own ship. Much better when I learned that. If you have a contract with a company-work it out-don't go against the written contract, no matter how hard it is. It's integrity-when you're done with the contract, leave or stay, but do it with integrity.

  • Nov 28 '12

    Two Words: Customer Service
    Two Words: Nursing Service

    It's when they chose the first two words, over the second. They went for patient happiness over patient outcomes.

    What do we give them at discharge? Teaching, beg them to do accu-cheks, follow that fluid restriction, and don't stop at Churches Chicken right after dialysis,...

    like last time!

    The hospital gives them a "Satisfaction" Questionnaire. It's so hard to make you like me when I am giving you an enema, or taking that cheeseburger from you that your wife snuck in(because you guilt tripped her), or I wouldn't let you go smoke because your oxygen is 90% at rest, and you pulled my hamstring on the way back from the BSC- trust me, cut back!

    ...oh, and will you fill this form out on my performance and your overall thoughts on the Holiday inn,...... I mean the hospital!! Your concierge,... I mean your patient advocate will pick it up

  • Nov 28 '12

    Quote from DSkelton711
    I am just so tired of being a nurse. I feel like I am running on fumes trying to take care of everyone and everything, and it seems nothing ever goes right. I am done, cooked and ready to do something else. Does anyone else feel this way? What do you do to overcome it? I am 52 and blessed to be employed, but just don't know that I want to be a nurse anymore.
    I hear you. I've been a nurse only 2 years and I'm considering other career options. It's not that I don't enjoy's the system and the politics which can be energy sucking. What about taking a vacation, going PRN or community nursing? Ultimately, we must take care of ourselves in order to properly care for our patients.

  • Nov 21 '12

    I hate nursing diagnoses too. I find them utterly useless in the real world.

    If you really want MD after your name, I say go for it. There are a lot of cons like the ones you listed, but if that's really what you want, I say go for it. Don't let anyone try to discourage you from doing what you want. IF that really is what you want.

  • Nov 16 '12

    Experience is the most useful, merciless and exacting teacher you will ever have.
    You can't learn to swim by just reading the swimming manual.

  • Nov 11 '12

    Quote from llg
    That says a lot.

    I have never said that the entry-level BSN route was the best for everybody. Nor did I say that there are NO people who regret going the BSN route. However, I remain firm in my belief that there is very little of such resentment among my generation of nurses -- and those that came before me -- who are now in leaderhip positions and leading the efforts to upgrade nursing educational standards. The motivation behind the proposals for upgrading the educational standards is not based on the kind of resentment you refer to in your previous post. Having been a nurse for over 30 years and active in professional organizations that address such issues I am quite certain of that.

    The resentful, bitter nurses who regret their own professional choices in life are rarely found among the leaders of nursing organizations.

    *** I do not share your assertion that there is an effort to upgrade nursing education standards. It is my opinion than current nursing education standards are dismal and I see no evidence thyat there is any attempt to improve them. I do hear calls for more nurses to have BSNs but that is not, in my opinion, an "upgrade" given the current low standards found in BSN programs.
    I believe that the ADN programs attract a diversity and strenght to nursing lacking in the other health fields. This diversity is an assest to nursing that we would be much the worse without.
    I have also become so cynical in reguard to so-called nursing organizations that I don't believe any discussuion of them would be constructive.

  • Nov 8 '12

    most of the people I know recently who have commented that it will be required to be a DNP to practice tend to have been incdoctrinated by the Deans of their NP programs. This is a racket on the part of the schools. I am not saying it will not be true one day, but the schools are driving it.

  • Nov 8 '12

    "A Medical Doctor who does not have a license to practice is still entitled to the title of Medical Doctor. The title of nurse is a title of licensure, not of educational achievement."

    This is exactly my point. Why is it we can refer to anyone with a "doctorate" degree as a doctor, regardless of license status when you are only a nurse when you pass NCLEX and are licensed within a state?

    I think the title of "doctor" is being handed out far too freely AND EASILY these days. You can earn your "doctorate" entirely online now. And the accreditation system in post secondary education is a farce. I love these "regionally accredited" for-profit on-line universities, who charge outrages fees for their subpar programs in obscurity.

  • Sep 18 '12

    Here we go again with the "Woe is me" cries after one graduates...And I'll say it again...did you do your homework BEFORE you became a nurse? In other words, did you ask nurses, recuiters, employees in the field about how your job prospects would be once you graduate? Did you do a simple (AND FREE) Google search to see what the hiring trends were? Take a look at your diploma--where does it say "I am now ENTITLED to a job?"

    This is the problems the nursing field faces today--everyone and their frickin' brother wants to be a nurse...The result? A glut of new nurses and low turnover, hospitals closing and/or on hiring freezes, etc. If you have a good GPA, well, good for you. It doesn't move you to the top of your list. On graduation day, the person with the highest GPA and the lowest GPA will both have diplomas at the end of the ceremony. Passed the NCLEX on the first try? Oh joy! So did thousands of others---and they're out of a job, too.

    Wait tables, pole dance, work retail until you land your nursing job--it's not beneath you--it's called opportunity and managing to stay alive and afloat in these tough times. Do what you have to do. If you have to work overnights as a nurse, well, people are sick overnight, too. So many grads think that they have to have a 9-5 schdedule so their jobn doesn't infringe on their social lives....If you have to move out of state, well, then do so. You're an adult, and if you're otherwise legally barred from leaving the state you reside in, it's time to look outside your comfort zone. (Last I heard, people in California, Montana, and Colorado get sick, too. Shhhhhhhh.).

  • Sep 16 '12

    DNP programs not very sophisticated. They are like Master's prepared programs. Waste of money at this time.

  • Sep 16 '12

    As I come to being 3 months away from graduating my BScN, I have reflected on the evolution of my perspective of nursing over these 4 years. Initially, it started off quite negatively. I even posted a quite hateful article about how "stupid" I thought nurses were and somehow managed to win second place for best article. In hindsight, I don't really feel like I am that hateful towards nurses anymore and I do regret writing that article. Though, I feel I have every right to be hateful and resentful.

    Let me first give you a quick synopsis of my experience with "nurses" these so called "caring" individuals. First of all, the professors. These women and men are among some of the most pretentious, self-involved and self-important people I have ever met. They think because they have their MN they are just the best things to be alive since Obama (I'm Canadian so maybe I didn't use a impactful analogy?). Every word that oozes from their mouth is filled with self-involvement and self-importance. One professor even stated that one of their graduate professors wanted them to publish this essay (which reputedly referenced Wikipedia), which was an atrocity with no clear purpose. Evidently, not worth publishing and for that reason was not published; though this professor managed to come up with some ridiculous excuse as to why it hadn't been published. This same professor went on to explain why this essay was so advanced and probably too advanced for us, nave students to understand.

    And let's move on to another professor who teaches a course she knows nothing about. Namely research. How can someone teach an advance research course that covers statistics and not understand what variance and standard deviation is? This professor consistently asked me to respond to the classes' questions (as I took statistics, advance statistics and calculus as electives). This same professor also called me "heartless" in front of the entire class because I left my group for 4 minutes just to go and explain to another group (who arrived to class late) the purpose of the assignment. In any case, back to the main issue, I guess nurses don't need to know anything about statistics anyway seeing as the only suitable research method for nursing is "qualitative" research. Maybe that is why nursing doesn't have the prestige that medicine has; because nurses are so obsessed with conducting second-rate research that is not respected by any other profession! Even psychology, one of the most subjective and 'qualitative' based disciplines does not rely on qualitative research! But I will talk about this later. Let me first continue to tell you about my experience with professors.

    Then I had the professor who consistently harassed me. Singled me out, cornered me, made me feel useless and helpless and gave me no other option but to tell her I wanted to drop out of nursing (which isn't entirely false). This professor took me into her office only to belittle me and continually tell me that she knew me more than I knew myself and that I have major problems and shouldn't continue with nursing. Now keep in mind this same professor has numerous complaints filed against her and told my best friend who is from Honduras that she should not continue in nursing because she was Spanish (I am Spanish as well). After that little fiasco in her office comes a presentation I have to present about environmental hazards. After prompting a discussion about bullying and using the example of the atrocity that happened in Arizona where a nursing student murdered three of his professors who were suspected of "bullying" this tormented soul I end up in the deans office being accused of threatening to kill this woman! After meeting with the schools psychologist, head of security and head of human resources this wretched woman is finally removed from campus and is on "sick leave" pending return on the campus. Thank GOD!

    So now that you have a little bit of my experiences with nursing, let me talk about how and why this is one of the most pretentious professions on the face of the earth. First of all, nurses feel like they have something to prove. These so called nurse "scholars" sit on their behinds, and think up theoretical, abstract B.S. that they think nurses should follow! For example, Parsi's theory of human becoming. This is just ridiculous, nursing does not need these so called "theories" to guide practice. Do you think physicians have these ridiculous theories that they try and follow while they practice? Nope. What about psychologists? Nope. There are theories that are useful, like theories of development and theories of diseases; but these random theories of nursing practice, no. Come on. Get over yourself nurses! Even Florence Nightingale herself doesn't deserve to call herself a true nurse. She had no actual practical experience in nursing except she went to nursing school; after which she didn't practice nursing. After her endeavors in Crimean war (which she apparently did fantastic in) she wrote that she felt she had failed and let her fellow men down. She did nothing, she was a glorified manager; making the other women do the work and report back to her. She also wasn't loyal to nursing either; when she donated her life fortune to a university that she wanted to go to the department of statistics, the university decided to put it to the faculty of nursing when she then decided to revoke her will to give this fortune to the university. This woman was a statistician, not a nurse.

    Next, we have the textbooks written for nurses about the nursing profession. I just finished reading a whole chapter about how the profession of nursing is so wonderful but needs to be better understood by the public and needs to be recognized more for its worth. What? What a waste of a book! Come on, nurses what are you guys trying to do?! No wonder physicians don't take you seriously, you feel you need to justify your profession by writing useless books about how your profession is worthwhile and wonderful! And this author had the audacity to say nurses are underpaid and under respected. Really? The experience I have had personally in my clinical rotations is not under respected. And I like to cruise Ontario's Salary Disclosure List (those who gross over 100,000 a year are on this list) and the majority of the people on this list are registered nurses, nurse practitioners and physicians; more than ANY OTHER PROFESSION!

    On top of that, in Canada, being in nursing you are better off than being in medicine. Medicine in Ontario neither gives you benefits, paid sick leave NOR maternity. If you want to have a baby as a physician, you have to work your ass off, save up money in a savings account and then use that money to take your maternity leave as you are only paid based on the number of patients you see. Nurses in Ontario get paid sick leave, get maternity pay and get benefits (provided you are full time but even then that is more than a full time physician gets).

    And lets go back to this qualitative research thing. How can you justify having an archaic research system like qualitative research as being the mainstay for research for your profession? Nurses try and segregate their profession so much from medicine; they are completely destroying their credibility. Nurses need to stop trying to be so different from medicine, stop being so self-absorbed and thinking their profession is just the greatest thing to hit the face of the earth and NURSE! Nursing started off as being under control by medicine and medical doctors. And in fact, it still is! Nurse practitioners are nurses who practice medicine. MEDICINE! There is no need to try and be separate from the profession of medicine because medicine is an umbrella term. It refers to health, well-being and individuals. Nursing does not need to try so hard to be separate from medicine.

    So yeah, it seems like nursing is a profession that tries too hard. And it is not surprising that it is female dominated because since the feminist movements females have been trying to segregate themselves from the rest of the world and be all individual. Well that's great and I have nothing bad to say about women but it is really obvious that the whole feminist perspective dominates nursing because nursing is trying too hard to be an individual. Just stop. It's superfluous and unnecessary.

    And I don't mean to offend anyone with this post (those of you who actually managed to read the whole thing!) and it is not my intent to be vicious or malicious towards the nursing profession. I do respect nurses and nursing and I know that the profession is so important. And it is because I respect nursing so much that I am writing this. I want nursing to stop being counter-productive to itself and live up to its reputation of being vital to society's survival. We are not going to gain respect by being a rebellious profession that doesn't follow what the standards of other professions are. So I say again, please nursing, stop trying so hard!

  • Jul 12 '12

    Not to be rude but I am concerned that your school did not teach you how to use your critical thinking skills. What type of degree did you just get?

    Pursuing this position would be a complete waste of everyone's time. Do you really want to start a new job in an oncology unit, where one of the main functions of your job is to administer chemo medications, by telling everyone "Hey, thanks for the new job but everyone on the floor is going to have to cover for me for the first 9 months because I cannot do my job. Thanks all for making my dream come true".