Content That EmmyBee Likes

EmmyBee, ASN, RN 4,402 Views

Joined: Mar 25, '08; Posts: 177 (46% Liked) ; Likes: 240
Registered Nurse; from US

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  • Sep 17 '16

    Lots of us commuted an hour or more to school. It's not that big a deal.

  • Jul 18 '10

    Just reading these posts made me way stressed out on the "are we a profession or not?!" opinions.

    Quite frankly... I don't care, personally, what you call me, as long as you respect me as a person. Me demanding you respect me because I had four years of college and have a Bachelor's Degree is tantamount to a doctor demanding I respect him because he had six years of college and has MD behind his name. I respect people based on their behavior, not based on their titles, and I don't expect anyone to automatically respect me because I have RN behind my name.

    Calling nursing a profession vs. a labor is like calling nursing a job vs. a career. For some people its a job, for others a career, just like for some its a profession and others its a labor. Nursing IS a service field. That's why I became a nurse, to SERVE people, not because I wanted to be a "professional". When someone mentions a professional I have the mental image of some dude in a suit or some chick in a two piece pant suit or something, and that's actually the exact opposite of what appeals to me about nursing (scrubs and tennis shoes are way more comfortable than skirts and stilettos).

    Its entirely possible to be professional without being a profession, and thinking respect is going to automatically fall from the heavens if nursing is ever "officially" declared a profession is foolish. Superiority complexes within physician circles, for instance, is always going to exist. To some doctors we will ALWAYS be "just a nurse". Its kind of like we're fighting to fit in even as we're fighting to stand out. We're fighting to validate nursing with physicians even as we're demanding to be separate from medicine. Entirely too much wasted energy is being put into changing people's opinions, and a "profession" as a whole is never going to be able to do that.

    Whatever you consider nursing, you must realize that it is diverse and necessary. And even if nobody else knows that, be content with the fact that you know who you are and what you're capable of, regardless of what anyone else calls you.

  • Jul 18 '10

    Quote from eriksoln
    Right there is pretty much the jest of what I am trying to get at here. Eliminate all the walking in circles, creating labels for doing our job (nursing diagnosis, the nursing process, critical thinking........come on, trying way too hard to sound important is what I see it as) and focus on being better at our job. THEN, WE CAN TRULY HOLD OUR CHINS HIGH AS OUR FOCUS WILL ONCE AGAIN BE THE PATIENT.

    I am not saying nursing is a useless trade to practice, nor am I saying we are less than anyone else. What I am saying is, the immature inferiority complex that often drives nursing theory is failing us. Refocus schools on teaching nurses to obtain the best outcome for their pt., not on passing some exam that, in theory separates the "concrete thinkers" from people able to "think critically" but in reality is nothing more than a hit and miss lottery. I'll say this much: If the NCLEX were any good, don't you think it would have eliminated someone like me who completely disposes of most "nursing theory" from the get go? I passed first time.


    The purpose of the NCLEX is not so much about whether you understand nursing theory, as it is about determining whether it's safe to give you a nursing license. Among other things, it's designed to determine whether you know how to apply nursing theory, for those situations involving off-the-wall symptoms and unfamiliar disorders.

    You might think nursing diagnoses are useless, but chances are that you're using them anyway, without really thinking about it. For example, if a patient suddenly develops trouble breathing, the average guy off the street might assume that the remedy is to give him oxygen. But we as nurses are aware that just sticking a cannula or mask on the patient's face doesn't always address the real problem. So we look for a cause or causes: is it ineffective airway clearance? Impaired ventilation/gas exchange? Or possibly a side issue, related to impaired tissue perfusion (cardiac) or anxiety or pain? Each of these conditions, of course, requires different interventions.

    So, when you're detecting and documenting a nursing diagnosis, you're indicating that you pursued the problem beyond the obvious (sticking the oxygen on the patient and walking away). You're showing that you followed a scientific method, rather than just going by the seat of your pants. And you're also providing criteria to evaluate the effectiveness of the interventions.

    Sure,it's cumbersome and it's a nuisance, when you're first learning to think in those terms. But it's also what causes you, as an experienced nurse, to do an EKG on your patient when he tells you he's having trouble breathing, or to question him a little more closely about his level of pain, instead of automatically assuming that trouble breathing = need for more oxygen.

    I'm having a hard time figuring out why that would translate either into immaturity or a poor self-image.

  • Jul 18 '10

    Interesting discussion, but really more like an academic exercise (that one might encounter in their eduction to enter or continue the profession of nursing). I understand most of your points that nursing might not be considered by some to be a profession. Where I disagree with you is that you are applying an ivory tower sociologist's definition of what it means to be a professional or to "join the (good ol' boys) club" (that the sociologists feel they belong to).

    I hold three licenses/certifications: paramedic, RN, and FNP. For all three I can say without a doubt that I am a professional. I have no identity crisis. None. During the course of my professions I use various skills, some basic, some complex, some subtle, and some in your face. I have no doubt that many, if not all of these skills could be taught on the job. That does not mean per se I am not a professional.

    You listed the criteria of a profession. Great. Now show me one using those requirements. MD? Lawyer? Psychologist? Sociologist? Surgeon? Pilot? Clergy? None of those have a "unique body of knowledge" that they own.

    You quote Sartre but I am not sure where you were going based on what followed your quote. However, I do think it applies. I am defined by what I do, and what I do is professional nursing, just like I am a professional paramedic (talk about two professions with a significant amount of crossover in body of knowledge). You are right about the motivation component. I don't find myself as altruistically motivated as some do, but I do care, and I do make a difference...even if its only a small one.

    As for the rest:

    A profession has controlled entry to the group eg registration
    A profession has its own disciplinary system.


    These two are really easy: state boards of nursing. I am pretty sure every state has one. They control who can be a nurse (licensure) and they discipline their licensed membership if need be. Your counter to controlled entry involves employment. Employment is not the first step. Licensure is. I don't understand your counter to the discipline issue. Are you suggesting that nurses aren't disciplined by bodies outside of their employment? Please clarify.

    A profession demonstrates a high degree of autonomous practice.

    I hear the term autonomous used often. First, what do you mean by autonomous? For some the definition falls along the lines of varying degrees of "being told what to do"-ness. This is patently ridiculous. Name a profession where there is no guidance from above. Everybody has rules and protocols. Everybody. Every profession. Nurses often use critical thinking (yes, nurses do use critical thinking...maybe not all nurses all the time, but very silly to suggest otherwise) and autonomous decision making during the course of even a protocol driven day.

    A profession enjoys the Recognition and Respect of the wider community.

    Most easy one of all. Just google "most trusted profession". Having said that, you will also get other professions listed in your search results as well. So again, I get it that you don't feel that nursing is a profession. And since my definition of profession is one of those cheesy "comes from within" kind of things then by (my) definition, you are correct: you are not a professional i.e. you are not doing professional nursing (and you are not alone). But that is you. Not me, and not many here. Using your classic sociology based definition of profession I do hope you can give an example of some (or any) professions.

    Just my .02
    Ivan

  • Jul 17 '10

    Quote from BabyLady
    I don't think it would make any difference in a lawsuit.

    Mainly because the scope of practice for a BSN is the same as an ADN because we both pass the same NCLEX.

    In a lawsuit, scope of practice and holding to the minimum standards, is what matters.

    We have NP's that have let their license expire that work in our unit...believe it or not. To me, if I was an attorney, that would be FAR more relevant in a lawsuit because you can prove that the knowledge was higher because of previous training.
    I disagree, I think it WOULD make a difference in a lawsuit. No, the scope of practice isn't different, but it goes to the matter of ethics and willingness to lie. It would be a knock to that person's credibility; like someone else said, "if they are willing to lie about that, what else are they willing to lie about?" It could be a problem if there was ever a lawsuit of some kind, I have no doubt.

  • Jul 17 '10

    OP, you remind me of myself (except no ex-husband LOL)! Yes, I left a very high paying career for nursing. I remember surfing these boards and seeing nothing but negative thread after another. I remember the fear I had of leaving my stable job I had been at over 14 years to take a leap into the unknown (nursing school).

    But I'm so glad I did!

    And on MOST days, I do love my job. I went into nursing for the flexible shifts and hours (I only work Sat and Sun nights, get paid for 3, with full bennies). I went into nursing to be fulfilled and knowing I'm making a difference in somoene's life. And oh yeah, the pay!

    Well, I started off working in the ICU straight out of nursing school, then transferred to the ER one week before my orientation was up in ICU. I had this patient in the ICU that was there for ETOH abuse, respitatory failure, liver diesase, GI bleed, and the list goes on. She was so out of control, after being sedated with Fent and Versed drips, she was very combative. Not only was she on the vent with sedation, she was in 4 point restraints. At one point, she almost pulled out her ET tube while being in restraints while my back was turned. Good thing I turned around just in time.

    Well, she was bleeding out somewhere, glowing like a lightening bug, and her organs were starting to fail. The docs called a family meeting and the husband decided to make her a DNR/DNI. That patient spent her 50 birthday in the ICU totally out of it and her family brought up cake and icecream and ballons for the staff.

    Well, I was off the next 3 days. When I came back, they said the patient made a good turnaround. I finally left the ICU and was working in the ER. Months later, I was helping a patient in the ER and here comes my patient from the ICU and her husband walking into the room next to my pt's room. The pt looked at me and said "you look like the nurse I had in the ICU". I said her name and she said "yes it's me". And all I did was run up to her and gave her a big hug. She looked so good! She had tears in her eyes and told me "thank you for saving my life". I had tears in my eyes. Alot of my co-workers witnessed this in the ER. They were amazed. I felt really good that day.

    It's days like this that makes it all worth it.

  • Jul 16 '10

    Quote from AKA_Glamour_Pearl
    In my opinion there is more to this than you are stating. I don't know if you're intentionally omitting some POSITIVE information about these students, or negative information about yourself.
    This quote above was my first thought. There are some facts missing here that don't quite support a cogent argument that these older students are getting an edge in the nursing workforce and admissions process. Perhaps the OP feels intimidated that there are so many older students with extensive life experience around her, pursuing the same career path to which she feels more entitled based on having identified nursing as a career right out of the gate and being at the top of her game?

    I am one of those older students who has in fact "enjoyed and endured" (dare I use the phrase) another career before discovering that nursing is where I ultimately need to be. At the OP's age I had long identified health care as a career that suited me to a T, but life has a funny way of diverting people away from their goals and into different directions. This I feel has the purpose of making one stronger and more well-rounded, whatever the experience may be (a different career move, new family responsibilities, illness, etc.). So if that person persists and eventually returns to his or her original career goal, he or she will be more ready than ever and THAT is the appropriate time for their career change. If nursing was exclusively for the younger students, there would not be as many windows of opportunity available for the older students to enter the profession.

    I may be wrong, but I almost get the impression that the OP is the type of person that will purposely not help out an older student classmate in a subconscious effort to thwart any potential competitive edge she perceives there to be. This is sad, because it would not be too far-fetched to believe that she could feel equally threatened and do the same in a work environment. And being what nurses do, such an attitude is not only toxic but can translate to dangerous consequences for patients. I admit I am a top student and I work extremely hard to get the credentials I have, but that does not give me a license to be selfish and keep fellow students from doing well in a class. If someone has trouble understanding a concept in class, I happily do my best to help them as much as I can, irrespective of what their age, status, condition or whatever is that makes them unique to me. It behooves me to be such a benevolent and compassionate person to my classmates, because isn't that the core essence of what a NURSE is to be?

    If the OP feels threatened by others purportedly encroaching on opportunities that she feels are rightfully only hers, then there exists deep-seated issues that she needs to resolve before entering the profession. Clearly the OP needs to refocus her energies more towards cultivating the best professional and personal profile she can and stop worrying about who is potentially stealing opportunities from her. Admittedly, she is on the right track with stellar grades and related activities, but that's only a fraction of what a good nurse brings to the table. Regardless of age, employers look at the whole package and nurses lacking in any area will find a hard time securing a fulfilling career. As someone stated previously, an extremely inflated sense of entitlement over others does come across in interviews quite easily (take that from someone who currently does interview and hire people) and it's clearly a negative.

    And remember OP, who knows? In 20 years you might even find yourself in the same situation as we are, and I am sure you would not appreciate younger students saying the same things about you. History has a nasty way of repeating itself.

  • Jul 16 '10

    Quote from ThePrincessBride
    And to those who keep raging on about how it is all about GPA, test scores, and volunteer experience, what if an older student and a younger student are neck to neck in terms for a spot? Should that older student get a spot because he/she is older and supposedly "wiser" and "more mature" than the younger student?

    Also, should I, an 18/19 year old with a 3.96 gpa, extensive volunteer experience and a newspaper columnist, be refused a spot in a program for my classmate, a pregnant 27 year old who only pushes for C's, has a 3.0, two kids, and NO volunteer experience soley because she is older?

    I have a feeling that some older students will say "yes"....ageism in reverse at its finest.

    No one is getting through to you!!
    Maybe that's why you have yet to be admitted into the nursing program. Again, you have made another assumption and you are incorrect. I would not say that a 27 year old is a better candidate for the nursing program, just because she's 27. I would consider ALL of the facts involved. That is what your school is doing. I can't understand why you would even think that if you were neck and neck with another candidate, that the other person would get the slot simply because they are older. Maybe it's not because they were ASSUMED to be more mature, maybe, they were in fact, MORE MATURE. Not mature, age-wise, but definitely cognitively. Maturity has nothing to do with age. I know A LOT of mature 18-year old people. I know some immature 40-year old people, as well.

    If you indeed feel that you have been discriminated against and you have a fair claim, then you should be getting your claims VALIDATED and stating your case with that school.
    Maybe you haven't completed all of your pre-requisites.
    Maybe you don't have the highest GPA of all the candidates, although you believe that you do.
    Maybe there is a waiting list. Some schools have them.
    Maybe your other professors have indicated that you should not be considered for a nursing slot at your institution at this time. Other professors are asked about their opinions of students, who are being considered for certain programs. Their recommendations are taken seriously and held in high regard. It does happen.

    Also, you keep mentioning these single mothers and pregnant women. What about them? You seem to have an elitist attitude. Do you think that you are somehow superior to a single mother who's trying to make a better life for herself and her children (or unborn child). Did you fail to read my earlier post? People come back to school for a variety of reasons. Right now, it's mainly due to the economy. Is it possible that someone was laid off from their job and decided that they would go back to school for Nursing, since that had always been their dream? It is possible, despite your belief that ALL these older people are just doing it just for the money and have no real interest in humanity.
    Just because I was in banking for 7-years and completed a degree in a completely different major doesn't mean that I'm in Nursing just for the money and that I have no interest in it. I can make a lot of money in Social Work too, if I completed an MSW. I could have completed that degree in less time, be making a similar salary (maybe more) and have a Mon-Fri, 9-5 work week. I chose nursing instead. Why? I chose nursing because I always wanted to do it, but I never had the courage. I decided that I was not going to live my life in fear and wonder if I could have done it. When I'm lying on my death bed, I don't want to "wonder" if I could have been a great nurse. I don't want to wonder if I could have helped my community more. I don't want to wonder if I had what it took. I'm giving myself the opportunity to make a difference. I will have my Nursing degree in May.

    My guess is that there are NOT droves of 27-year old, pregnant women with 2 kids in nursing school. It wasn't because of their age, the fact that they have entered motherhood, or their single status. It sounds like you have a problem with one or two individuals, who made it into the program and you can't figure out how they surpassed you, so you're attacking and making discriminatory comments about an entire population of students based on their sex, age, marital status, and pregnancy/children. Wow! If you were an employer, you could be sued! Now, It is you who have brought the age discrimination to the forefront and you are in fact, the one that is being discriminatory.

    Each school has a reputation and standard to uphold and they only want the best. Admitting candidates based on assumptions would affect their program and all schools work hard for their accreditation. They are not going to lose their accreditation or be under public scrutiny because they didn't follow protocol with regards to admitting qualified candidates. They aren't assuming anything. They are looking at the total package. They are not going to affect their accreditation by allowing just ANY student to enter,and end up with a failing nursing class. It would certainly lower their NCLEX pass/fail rate, which is public information. Who wants to attend the nursing school with a pass rate of 48%?

    You are just unprepared, despite your high GPA and extensive community service. Oh, and just so that there is no confusion. A high GPA is a good thing, but because your GPA is a 3.96 and someone else has a 3.0 doesn't mean that they are not a viable candidate and that you are the better one. There are a host of other factors to look at and Age of the student and the number of children that they have is NOT on the list.

    In my opinion there is more to this than you are stating. I don't know if you're intentionally omitting some POSITIVE information about these students, or negative information about yourself.
    Maybe you truly do not understand how the admission process works. I'm going to give you the benefit and say that the latter is the reason for your viewpoint. Take this into consideration and contact your school and contact your advisors on campus. They can lead you in the right direction and have you better prepared for the next time. That would get you a lot further than venting and making stereotypical/discriminatory/accusatory comments.

  • Jul 16 '10

    Erik, Your post was interesting and thought provoking, but I can't say I'm ready to jump on your bandwagon. While I admit that I hold nursing diagnoses with the same respect as I hold pig-latin as a foreign language, I find nursing theory utterly relevent to practice (particularly Benner). Additionally, while I agree that the field of nursing is not where it needs to be as a profession, I do feel that there has been a marked advancement. IMHO, just because we are not yet where we need to be should not mean we retreat --- or maybe this is just my stubborn nature.

  • Jul 15 '10

    What is the census like for the 2 aides? What do you considered "strapped?"

    I might be going out on a limb, but I've been a CNA 9 years, and I've never expected the nurse to help with bed checks. Obviously the nurse is qualified and able to help as needed, but I in turn can not help with the nursing duties which need done. Now, if the census is high and/or the 2nd aide called in, I would understand the need for help, but the two aides should be asking each other for help before pulling a nurse from med pass. If the two aides can't finish in 1 1/2 hr, then start 2 hours before shift change. At shift change, the day shift aides should be doing a walk though with nights anyways for the next scheduled bed change.

    Obviously they can get it all done in two hours, as you say all night long they have time to sit and talk b/t q2h checks... I never had time to sit and talk when I worked nights.

  • Jul 15 '10

    My opinion is that the aides are trying to run the unit and the manager is assisting them. Surely you have the judgement to be able to tell when you should and can help and when you shouldn't and can't. The aides can start half an hour earlier if they are incapble of getting their work done or they can put more effort into speeding it up. Often all it takes is for them to work in pairs like we used to do. When aides work in pairs they free up all sorts of time.

  • Jul 13 '10

    Quote from PetiteOpRN
    That is a different matter entirely. LPN/RN are licenses, not degrees. The respective scopes of practice for each are different. With ADN/BSN, the license is the same (RN), and there is no difference in scope of practice.
    Agreed that signing RN after you name and not being licensed is probably worse. But I think pretending you have a BSN should not be treated like it is nothing. BTW I do not have a BSN. I just can't fathom how someone would actually do this and think if was ok??? But hey there are all kinds in the world.

  • Jul 11 '10

    I'm sorry but this will be a vent. After working 13+ busy shift in the ER, I come home to log on to here and it simply kills me that NON-nurses (including those in nursing school, or taking pre-reqs, or those who have not even graduated from high school yet!) comes on here and think they know what it's like to really be a nurse.

    Oh really????

    All the "I will never be that kind of nurse" threads, but never spent one HOUR in our Dansko's......

    And the kicker? Telling how you will "handle a doctor when calling one", when yet, you have not had to actually deal with a doctor regarding direct PATIENT CARE!

    The superior-know-it-all-attitude simply kills me!

    All I can say is when SOME of you actually get into a nursing program, get through the nursing program, pass boards, be lucky enough to actually land a RN job, and then start WORKING as a licensed RN, I sure hope you are TEACHABLE! Because I can only imagine how your orientation will go, because it's simply not easy to teach people who already know it all or got all the answers, without really knowing what they don't know! And then we'll get flooded with threads about how nurses eat their young!

  • Jul 11 '10

    Quote from theprincessbride


    maybe saying "it's not my job" isn't professional, but when i become an rn, i do not want to be doing a cna's job. nope, sorry. that is like asking a high school teacher to mop up the hall way floors, something a janitor should be doing.
    toileting a patient is your job when you become an rn. it's nothing like asking a teacher to mop the floors -- although sometimes that becomes our job, too. there may be times when you're too busy to do things like toileting, brushing teeth or feeding someone and there's a cna available who can do that while you give mr. s his pain meds, call the doctor about mr. y's chest pain and do the staffing for the next shift. but you are just as wrong as the op with your attitude that you "don't want to be doing a cna's job." sometimes there aren't enough cnas to go around -- or they are all busy -- and you get to toilet the patient.

    as with the op: walk a mile in my shoes, and then tell me what you'd do differently.

  • Jul 11 '10

    Whenever I call a doctor at night I always start out by saying "Sorry to call you this late but Mr. XYZ is tachy as all get out." I don't consider this to be an apology. To me it's just simply a part of being courteous. I'm really not a bit sorry I called. "Sorry to disturb you" is simply a quick, easy, and POLITE way of saying that I have a situation here that I wouldn't be bothering you about if I had a choice. "I sorry" takes less than a second to say and believe it or not, causes the speaker no pain. Call it being politically correct but years of experience in the corporate world taught me a whole lot about dealing with difficult personalities. I think we can all agree that many doctors fit that description.


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