Latest Comments by ERKev

ERKev 1,776 Views

Joined: Aug 25, '01; Posts: 38 (3% Liked) ; Likes: 2

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    I would also like to point out to all the following:

    Where else but nursing do you get graded on a different scale in college? At least in the ADN programs I am aware of, less than 80% is failing. In all other programs of higher ed, the norm is less than 70% is failing. And what about the year or two of prerequisite courses in order to start or apply to the nursing program?

    Nursing programs are MUCH more demanding than most others. Most ADNs will tell you it took them very nearly 4 years of 3/4 time or better to get their 2 year degree. And, in addition, we had to take some humanities courses, i.e., fine arts, etc...

    Now that my anger has subsided, I will agree that a BSN has it's place, but I don't think it's necessary for entry level. Some RNs prefer to stay at the bedside. Stepping up into management should require a minimum of a BSN. But to provide good, competent bedside care, it is rediculous to even consider requiring a BSN in order to practice.

    Just because the ADN has a 2 year degree, doesn't mean they didn't work just as hard as the BSN to get it. Maybe a few less "BS" courses, but one heck of a lot of stress, work and study...

    I'm stepping back off my soap box now...

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    Originally posted by fab4fan

    ...when you're secure in yourself you don't need to try to make yourself look better by denigrating others.
    fab4fan, I rarely agree with you, but you have my attention, my respect and applause!!!!


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    Originally posted by ainz
    It is very sad and unfortunate that our own profession does not even recognize and reward higher education.

    The laws of economics apply as well and so does the law of nature in terms of the path of least resistance. I also did the ADN because it was cheaper and easier. We damage ourselves in our quest for higher pay and better conditions when we remain trapped in the ranks of paid by the hour quasi-professionals. It has an insidious, subtle, effect overall on nursing as a whole when we do not aggressively promote and require higher education and continually raise our standards.

    I would suggest pulling out our old sociology books and re-reading the definition of a profession.
    Sorry, I have to jump in here. Sorry if this has been touched upon already. This particular post REALLY raised the hair on the back of my neck...

    I have an ADN. I have been nursing for 15 years. I am an Emergency Nurse (and a damn good one, I might add). I have worked with ADN nurses, BSN nurses, MSN nurses, MDs, DOs, NPs, PAs, etc... Some scare me to death! Regardless of their educational levels!

    Bottom line is this: NURSE! Do you know what you're doing??? Are you in over your head? Deal with it responsibly! Get out if you can't handle it. Press forward if you can!

    Nursing tends to make things seem more complicated than it has to be in order to justify their desire for professional recognition. Nursing Care Plans... WHAT A JOKE!!!! I haven't done one since school. My patients LIVE!!! I don't have (nor WANT) a BSN. I'll stand up against any other ADN, BSN, MSN in my dept!!!

    This is all a bunch of bull, as far as I'm concerned. We don't need the devision within our ranks! This report is, after all, by JAMA!!! Do you see this??? JAMA... They have an inate hatred for RNs to begin with! They have, over the years, attempted to replace us with high school grads under the tutiledge of MDs over and over as their "fix" for our shortage. And Holier-than-thou persons within our ranks back them up with this bickering.

    I (WE!!!) don't NEED to justify ourselves to the physician communty (the authors of this rediculous waste of paper). We do not need to convolute our own practice to look important!!! WE ARE IMPORTANT!!! We don't need to make extra work for ourselves to perform already difficult tasks!!!

    If I'd had the money and time, I may well have gotten a BSN. I didn't! But, don't tell me that I (we) am not a good nurse! Don't tell me I (we) am less than a BSN (or MSN!). I've worked with both over the years and I'm here to tell you that those degrees mean NOTHING when it gets down to the bottom line: saving lives....

    Maybe my 15 years means nothing to you, but my patients appreciate it. The physicians I work with appreciate it. The PAs I work with appreciate it. The only ones I have trouble with are Residents/Interns, NPs and other advanced practice nurses (who seem to look down thier noses at the lowly "little people").

    Smoke THAT....

    Sorry for the steam, but you folks REALLY ruffled my feathers tonight!!!

    ADN and PROUD OF IT!!!!

    P.S. I would suggest you and others of your ilk read between the lines. Maybe you won't destroy your own profession!!! Oh! And READ my taglines....

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    I have been working agency since June, but before that I was getting $1.50/hr at my full time job in ER when in charge. This was in Detroit at St John NE Comm Hosp, since then closed. Hope it helps!

    $.75 is NOT worth charge. Unless it entails no real duties or responsibilities. I would certainly not accept charge with no compensation at all for it.


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    As a new grad in the ED, I was doing an intitial assessment on a gentleman that had c/o a possible broken great toe at around 3am. His girlfriend, a little person (about 3'10") attentively and sympathetically listening.

    He had gotten up during the night to go to the bathroom and struck his toe on a nightstand, fracturing it.

    Later during his assessment when questioned re: pain, I asked him to rate his pain from 0, being "no pain", to 10 being "the worst pain you ever felt in your life". He looked at me with such a confused and lost look on his face, glancing back and forth between his girlfiend and I when he finally looked at the floor and said, "Gee, Sir... I ain't too good at math!"

    I stood there dumbfounded, holding back my giggles and had to excuse myself in order to recompose!:roll


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    Originally posted by athomas91
    did you know that there is a direct correlation of tooth:tattoo ratio and death..... they never die when the ratio is 1:1 or better....
    Hey! I sport some rather intricate and colorful tattoos from my forearms to my shoulders!

    ...And I have ALL my teeth!


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    Originally posted by angelbear
    I know you were not personally labeling me. I have just had a very bad experience and would like to think I can somehow prevent it from happening to someone else. I dont know if those who work in ER realize it but reading about all their drug seekers make those of us legit afraid to seek their help. Thanks for responding.
    You may rest assured that I would NEVER label you that way. After many years of emergency nursing, I have a BIG problem with pain patients being undermedicated and poorly treated. I have had many a heated discussion with physicians and PAs reguarding undermedicating and unjustly labeling a pt as a seeker. I feel confident in having NEVER been the cause of anyone being labeled a seeker when they have had a legitimate complaint of pain.

    I think many ED nurses will tell you the same thing. After a while, you get to know the seekers. Some times I may get fooled by a seeker, but I have NEVER withheld or encouraged the withholding of pain meds to an ED patient that was even POSSIBLY a seeker. I prefer to err on the side of compassion... Many ED nurses will say the same. I would further like to apologize to those of you who have had a negative experience in the ED seeking treatment for pain. Pain IS a very subjective experience. I, myself, am a big baby when it comes to pain. Thank Goddess I do not have a chronic problem with it.


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    Originally posted by MAGIK GIRL
    excellent post!
    Thank you, MAGIK GIRL...

    As I said before in this thread, I am very impressed by all the posts here! I makes me proud of our profession! Even though some posts seem a little condescending, the writers obviously care deeply about those in their charge. We are truely a caring profession, thus the passion in our posts. I am truly proud of you all...


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    Also, Folks.... This thread's title says a lot: "pain in the ed"

    We're not talking about anyplace else in this thread. I think, perhaps to a degree, this is why this discussion may become heated at times. I, myself, come solely from an ED perspective. In reading these other posts again, it is quite obvious that most others do not. ED is particularly different from most other nursing contacts for pain control. It is usually in the form of acute pain control, not chronic, that pain is treated. And the ED/EMS is abused in a wide variety of ways - not just seekers. I have seen in the past year alone, people using the EMS to get from one side of town to the other - no real medical problems for which treatment is desired. Just a "free" way to get to another crack house across town.


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    Yes... This has gotten quite heated. And I think it's important for all to understand that our areas of practice differ, so our experiences differ. I, myself, work in a number or Detroit area EDs. We have a DEFINATE problem with SEEKERS!!! And I use the term NOT as an epithet, but as a very good descriptor. On some evenings as many as 30% of the people I see are there simply for pain drugs. At one particular ED I work at there are about 4 other EDs within the city that are all conected by the same computer system. We see the records of all of their visits! These people (not all, but many) make the rounds from ED to ED. In a perfect world, we could refer them to help and they might very well take us up on the help. But, most simply get peeved and split for the next ED.

    Now, you can look down on me and my usage of the term "seeker" and call me uncaring, but I am there, in the trenches, night after night with no breaks and no relief. Then, enter the seekers. They don't even stick with the same stories from one visit to the next, often only a few hours apart! They swear they haven't been treated before! They also (as previously mentioned by on of those nasty people using the term "seeker") threaten our lives and actually DO wait around and watch for you to leave. I have a close friend (ED nurse) that had a pistol held to her head in the parking lot by a SEEKER.

    I've cried more times than I can even recall over the people I've had under my care. And, further, I'll be the first one to push for proper pain control! But, there are seekers. They do cost us a great amount in time and resources. They do detract from the legitimate pain patients who get lumped into the same category. THEY ARE THERE....


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    Originally posted by teeituptom
    I will leave it to all you young pups to go joustng after windmills. Its your turn to seek out the dragons and remember there are even more hurdles in your way now than ever before.

    Been there done that

    I will focus on things more important, like honest patient care.

    I can completely relate, teeituptom! Though my hair's not turning gray, it IS falling out!

    This is a great forum, though. No where else can we compare notes and frustrations. And, while we seem to differ quite a bit in our potential solutions, it is obvious to me that you are all some fine, compassionate and caring nurses.

    May you all have great blessings and a gentle wind at your back...


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    Originally posted by Erin RN
    Probably because tolerance issues and the fact that a "regular joe" would arrest if they got as much as a frequent flyer.. I know I have given doses that would kill me and my family...

    It is frustrating and I remember being there and just getting pissed that this person was "wasting my time" ..anyone have any feasable ideas (Not the oxycontin lick in the waiting room)..on how to make this situation better? Erin
    When I was a new grad in the ED, we used to keep a card file of our frequent fliers and share them with some of the other local EDs. Can't do that any longer though. It was nice! Just look up the name when you suspected drug seeking. Also good for other probs, like Van Munchousen By Proxy <sp?>...

    Alas, the "Powers That Be" have put the kobash on that. It was a NICE referrence tool and did NOT result in people being dealt with impropperly, but allowed us to deal with them with KNOWLEDGE...


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    Originally posted by hogan4736
    I disagree

    Let's just give the shoplifter the merchandise he wants in the store then...
    I agree with you, hogan4736... Many times at triage, I have been able to deter them, either by warning them of the rediculously long wait of "up to 6 or 8 hours" (when in reality it would be maybe 30 mins), or warning that the Doc on duty "rarely gives narcs but uses Toradol", etc...

    On another note: Anyone have the unusual type of Doc that gives more effective pain med doses to the fakers than to the legit pts? IOW when the pt has legit pain complaints, they tend to be more "frugal" with the doses?


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    Originally posted by kmchugh
    Frankly, when you start using Michael Moore as a source for political thought, its time to check your cracker. The cheese has slipped off.

    Being a former Marine ('Nam Era), I know that we're not gonna hear bright, sunshiny things about Iraq from the troopies over there. And he was right about personal peril to the troops making their comments. He should NOT be publishing these comments! I thought we were wrong in going over there to begin with, but to listen to the likes of Moore regarding anything to do with reality causes me to ask about your cheese.

    We SHOULD bring ALL our troops back home, but Moore (AGAIN!!!!) is not handling things properly. And, YES! he's FULL of Socialist drivel!

    To Hellllllo Nurse: I used to be a machine tool electrician when he did his thing on Roger Smith. I thought it was pretty cool, but it was (to me) nothing more than a joke. Certainly no cinematic masterpiece. Simply Flint shop-rat mentality...