Unpaid overtime... - page 2

Some RNs where I work clock out (at the regular time) and then finish their charting (in their own time) - that way they don't claim overtime (which makes management happy). My question is - is this... Read More

  1. by   Maggie19662
    • if your employer makes you clock out and finish your work
    • if you have a morning meeting before work
    • if your employer requires you to work on the weekends without clocking in
    All of this time you spend working should be paid be counted as hours worked for purposes of overtime pay whether or not your employer wants you to be "clocked in."
  2. by   Maggie19662
    Isnt it illegal to make Nurses work off the clock?

    We are being asked to do so in order save money. We are hourly, and being asked to clock out to do documentation.
    it is illegal. A nursing home here tried to do the same thing. A nurse turned them into the labor board and that rule was reversed real quick. Their idea was to save money buy telling nurses that they had to be off the clock after the shift and that they would be written up if they were there overtime. THe idea of a lawsuit was more expensive than the money the money they were trying to save. Also if you work off the clock it can jeopardize your license. Yes this is a federal law violation. yes, it is illegal. are you a part of a nurse's union? you should report it to them immediately. if you're not unionized, talk to someone in hr. It's a violation of the law. Contact your state's Department of Labor. (It's a violation of state labor law, not federal law unless you work on a federal contract or for the federal government.) They'll get everyone back pay and see to it that the problem does not continue. Yes it is illegal.

    However if you go along with it, it could be considered a free donation of effort. as you present it here, yes it is illegal. Yes. It's a violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Do you have a union, if so, what does your contract say,

    If not, why not, and why not organize one. Yes not just as nurses but n e job. and they dont have a right to fire u if u refuse so i would refuse. if they do fire u, take them to court and sue the pants off your boss. if she has nice pants. lol if they want to work off the hour they can but they can not be forced to do it. if you are being forced to work than go sue that bastard. Not cool at all. You can't be asked to work and not be compensated. It's that plain and that simple. is the hospital your working for unionized? that's technically illegal what they are asking you to do. if it's part of your job duties, then you are entitled to pay. What state do you work in, contact department of labor and ask questions if a union is not present, hopefully the HR at your place isn't corrupt. I'm sure those asking you to work without pay are making their money. You'r eonly supposed to work the hours you are scheduled. You are not supposed to be working for free. it's illegal to make anyone work off the clock for any reason unless you volunteer to do so. If Not, you can report them to your local IRS agency.

    Read this article http://www.scalaw.com/info/article2.html... it is. you have probably noticed that Wall mart has recently paid out millions because of doing this very thing to its people. you do not have to work for free. you are a person who sells your education and ability's to a company or business for fair compensation. if the business you work for is trying to make you work for free then take that business to court. they know it is not legal and are hoping that you don't or will overlook it. ask them if they work for free or are willing to give up their salary and or benefits as they are asking you to. Documentation is part of their job and is required by law to document the days events and thecare and procedures performed on each patient.it is required by the state board of nursing.In a nursing home if things arent documentedby each shift ,seven days a week the facility can be fined and nurse can be dissmissed or out on leave.Hospitols are also required to have basicly the same type of imformation.An employer who ask demand or whatever that the charting is to be done on nurses time had better find other ways to save a buck.Documentation is necessary and very important part of their work,and nurses are taught in school how to chart accuratly and precise,thus keeping their license safe and to cover their employers but in case of a law suit.But look at it from the patients well being,if you arent given time to chart everything that has happened during your shift so the next shift has something to go back to.then you are putting that patient in jeapardy.And again the nurse is the one who will suffer if harm comes from not charting.You can best your asse that the facility has a darn good lawyer to protect them.If working off the clock is permiited,what next will the employer want,let me see,dont,stay after to give each other report or count the meds,unless you clock out first?
  3. by   I love my cat!
    It is illegal. I know because I use to work at a well-know non-union Hospital that would alter the electronic time cards of those that clocked out late. Nurses reported it to the "higher'-ups" within the Hospital, but nothing was done (surprise). So, the State was contacted and an audit was done.
    The Hospital had to pay back MILLIONS in back-wages.
    I never clock out early (I never did), but I always write down my times. An electronic time clock does not guarantee accuracy....I learned the hard way.

    I am also unsure of the laws surrounding job injuries if you are still there at a facility physically, but working off the clock? Is an employee covered?
    Anyone have any link to this?
  4. by   Maggie19662

    on and off the clock: one approach to alarming workers' compensation costs

    grant results
    last updated: november 1998

    table of contents---------------------------the problemthe projectresultsafter the grantgrant details & contact informationbibliography

    in 1995, the national conference of state legislatures sponsored a three-day symposium designed to bring together private and public policymakers to discuss key issues concerning 24-hour coverage, a program designed to control costs associated with workers' compensation and health care.

    key results
    • the "24-hour coverage symposium" took place on september 5-7, 1995, in philadelphia. the meeting provided an opportunity to evaluate the 24-hour pilot projects and to advise participants on the legal impediments that must be overcome in implementing a program.

      one-hundred-fifty people attended the meeting, including governors' office staff, state legislators and their staff, insurance regulators, workers' compensation administration, and insurers.
    the robert wood johnson foundation (rwjf) supported this project through a grant of $61,834.

    see grant detail & contact information
    back to the table of contents
    the problem

    employer-paid health insurance typically covers only those injuries sustained outside of working hours; on-the-job injuries are covered by a separate workers' compensation system. unlike general health insurance, the workers' compensation system also pays for wages lost while a worker recuperates. traditionally, disability income and rehabilitation benefits have accounted for the greater part of the cost of providing workers' compensation benefits. in recent years, however, workers' compensation medical costs have escalated sharply and now make up a much greater proportion of total workers' compensation costs than in the past. this escalation has prompted state policymakers to consider new strategies for controlling these medical costs. in particular, they are testing a concept known as 24-hour coverage, which includes removing all or part of the boundary between occupational and non-occupational claims. representing a complete system of medical and disability benefits, 24-hour coverage is available to individuals regardless of whether an injury occurs during work or non-work hours. however, the approach does present significant challenges for states: both workers' compensation and group health insurance have unique characteristics that must be preserved to avoid such problems as overuse of medical services, disincentives to return to work, higher disability costs, and less attention to safety by both employers and employees.
    the national conference of state legislatures (ncsl) has worked extensively to provide states with research findings and information on both workers' compensation and health care policy and, since 1985, has provided a national forum on labor issues, including 24-hour coverage. with ncsl's technical assistance, at least nine states passed legislation authorizing 24-hour coverage pilot projects, and most other states have shown an interest in these pilot efforts. one pilot project, in oregon, received funding from the robert wood johnson foundation (rwjf) under grant id# 020229. at the time of the grant to ncsl, rwjf was developing its national workers' compensation health initiative.

    back to the table of contents
    the project

    the objective of this grant was to convene a conference for state policymakers to discuss key issues related to 24-hour coverage. the conference was scheduled to coincide with a meeting of the national association of insurance commissioners (naic), which cosponsored it along with the ncsl, the council of governors' policy advisors (cgpa), and the international association of industrial accident boards and commissions (iaiabc).
    the three-day conference aimed to: examine the pros and cons of 24-hour coverage; summarize and review existing pilot projects and discuss evaluation criteria and methodology for evaluating them; review the current legislative and regulatory environment for 24-hour coverage; and provide a forum for rwjf to introduce its national program, workers' compensation health initiative, to state policymakers. other planned products included a number of working papers, conference proceedings, and a special session on 24-hour coverage issues at the annual meeting of the ncsl.

    back to the table of contents

    the "24-hour coverage symposium," held in philadelphia, pa., on september 5-7, 1995, drew 150 participants from 30 states, puerto rico, and the district of columbia. attendees included governors' staff, state legislators and staff, insurance regulators, workers' compensation administrators, insurers, managed care representatives, health care providers, employers, and third-party administrators from both the public and private sectors. the symposium provided an opportunity to evaluate the 24-hour pilot projects and to advise participants on the legal impediments that must be overcome in implementing a program. key sessions of the symposium included:
    • "what is 24-hour coverage? the many variations of the theory" provided an overall context for the symposium sessions.
    • "the legal and regulatory environment" discussed the barriers to implementing a 24-hour coverage program.
    • "24-hour coverage: data needs and program evaluations" reviewed current problems related to data collection and strategies for developing efficient and effective data collection.
    • "the politics of workers' compensation" presented various political perspectives on workers' compensation.
    in addition, there were workshops and roundtables on establishing pilot projects and other issues, with concurrent sections tailored to public- and private-sector concerns.
    the program officer, michael beachler, made a presentation on the foundation's new national program, the workers' compensation health initiative, which supports innovative projects to address the quality and high costs of medical care under workers' compensation programs.


    all symposium participants received a binder containing written papers or outlines of many of the presentations, along with other background material. the binder includes: original papers on 24-hour coverage, the legal and regulatory environment, politics of the issue, and data collection and evaluation; an naic progress report on implementation of 24-hour coverage; and summaries of state statutes, regulations, and activities. the ncsl also has mailed the binder in response to requests for information about 24-hour coverage. ncsl has received follow-up inquiries from many symposium participants as well as calls from 125 others who did not attend but heard about the project. the naic and the iaiabc also report receiving numerous calls related to the symposium.
    the symposium's sponsors presented a report on the conference at the ncsl annual meeting in st. louis, mo., in july 1996. the session reported on the findings of the symposium, and all attendees received copies of the symposium binder. the sponsors continue to disseminate the binder upon request, and the naic puts out a quarterly publication on 24-hour coverage.

    back to the table of contents
    after the grant

    ncsl continues to assist states in designing and implementing 24-hour coverage pilot projects, as does the naic. the groups fund some staff for monitoring issues related to 24-hour coverage and intend to seek additional funding from foundations to finance major projects in this area. the sponsoring associations planned a joint meeting to discuss how they could coordinate their activities better in order to facilitate state experimentation in this area.
    the naic continues to work with the foundation's national workers' compensation health initiative and announced the availability of foundation grants for workers' compensation projects at its winter national meeting in san antonio, texas, on december 6, 1995.
  5. by   SillyStudent
    I clock in on time every single day. I clock out when I am done working. If I am still charting, I am still on the clock.

    If TPTB decide they don't like that, I will find a new job. We are not on salary, (or as I like to call it, 'slavery') and we are expected to do what is necessary to take care of our patients. Charting is work. Get paid for it.

    Of course, my hospital does not complain about it. I guess I am just lucky.
  6. by   aliciabauer
    If you are interrupted during your unpaid break for ANYTHING work related, phone call, opening a door for a patient to walk through... ANYTHING.. then they have to pay you, so fill out your missed lunch form everytime you are interrupted. If they give you grief state the law to them, about being 100 percent relieved of all work duties, and if not it has to be a paid lunch break.
  7. by   diane227
    If you are a non exempt employee by law your employer has to pay you for every hour that you work. A non exempt employee is one who is paid by the hour. No one should be clocking out and continue working. If this is occurring and encouraged by management it should stop immediately. The hospital could be liable for paying back pay if an employee decided to report this to the board of labor. Working off the clock is absolutely illegal according to the National Labor Relations Board.
  8. by   louisianalvn
    Federal Law, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), trumps state law.

    Some of the ways that health care facilities (especially skilled nursing ones) cheat workers
    out of their overtime is:

    1) Tell you to arrive early for report and THEN clock in.
    2) Interrupt your lunch hour - even for a minute - then you are entitled to be paid for the hour
    3) Make you attend meetings off the clock
    4) Tell you to clock out and finish your charting or other work
    5) Tell you to clock out and do the narcotics count
    6) Tell you to clock out and wait for your relief.

    They always threaten you with the loss of your license if you don't stay.

    A group of Texas nurses has filed under the Fair Labor Standards Act to collect their overtime.
    Although it talks about LVN's, documentation suggests that Med Aides, CNA's, housekeeping,
    and food service will join in to collect their back money

    It looks like the suit is expanding nation wide to many skilled nursing facilities.

    Read about it here:

  9. by   Nikki Nurse
    Look up the FLSA ( Fair Labor Standards Act), find what you need , copy it and give it to whomever is asking you to do this. It simply is not legal !
  10. by   Nikki Nurse
    Look up the FSLA (Fair Labor Standards Act), find what you need, copy it and present it to whomever is asking you to do this. It is simply illegal!

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