Male Nurses/female Patients

medtwo · Jul 21, 2006

Having been in nursing for more than 40 years I have seen a great many changes. In the early 60's men did not get assigned to female patients. Ever. In the 70's, with ever increasing nursing shortages and, I might add, a change from male and female wards to comingled units, gradually began having female patients assigned to them. In the 80's, it was common to see no gender discrimination in assignments. However, because of the possibility of being accused of fondling, or worse, men usually did not do caths, help with gyn exams, etc. In today's litigious society I would never do a cath, or be present for an exam without female witness. If the Doc is a female, no problem. If there is another women present, caths are fine. I have done many, many of both caths and gyn exams but never alone. Too dangerous. If You are too nieve to think that all things are equal, you have a lot to learn.

Michael2546 · Jul 21, 2006

OK, I have admit that I have not read every post. However, I have followed many such posts on other forums. AAMN, etc. and have but one question.
Do the female nurses require a chaperone for certain procedures like men do, as has been insinuated by some of the posts?
If not, then neither should the men. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse. I did not become a "male nurse". I checked the license in my wallet just to be sure on this one. Funny, but it just says Registered Nurse. Nurses who happen to be of the male gender should/ do have all of the same rights and responsibilities as nurses who happen to be of the female gender.
Exluding a group due to their gender/race/creed/orientation etc. etc...is illegal in most cases.
In school the only issues that I had regarding gender were discrimination by nursing staff and mostly instructors. The patients had did not say anything to nursing or my instructors, they took it upon themselves to create an issue.
With the great shortage and the fact that nursing was for hundreds of years up until Florence, a male only profession, why can't we just all get along and do what we were trained to do?
Thank you

I absolutely agree with everything you have said. Doctors are not questioned about whether they perform task on women and neither should I. Back in the early 90's I worked in an emergency room. All the other nurses had gone to supper and only myself and an old doc were present in the ER. He said we had a patient that needed a lady partsl exam but her would have to wait a half hour until a female nurse returned from supper. The patient was bleeding. I told him that we are all nurses not male or female and that professionally we could perform the exam. Talking to the patient revealed she did not have a problem with us performing the exam she just wanted results. Another time one of my female patients needed a cath. I was told by one of the older nurses that I could not do the procedure. I told her to check her license and I would check mine to see if it said male or female. I also told her to check the scope of practice to see if it differentiated gender specific task. I got the cath and performed the procedure. Nurses have to step up and take charge. We are no different than the physicians. We all have jobs to do. Sure there are some nurses who are not as professional and probably should not be nurses as there are MDs that are not as professional and should not be physicians. Well I guess that is enough on this subject.

figment · Jul 21, 2006

Our male nurses do everything, the only exception is only when the patient requests a nurse of a different gender to perform a procedure.

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

old_guy · Jul 21, 2006

Interesting thread. At 47, and entering pre-nursing in Jan 07, I tend to the cautious (some would say paranoid) side. I'm not about to put myself in a position where impropriety could be accused. If my daughter is going to bring a friend home, I insist that my wife be home. In my present job, I never go into a room with a female coworker without leaving the door open. As a nurse, I intend to never work with a female patient without a door being open, or if involved in a sensitive procedure, a female chaperone being present. It may be a double-standard, but with men "Guilty Until Proven Innocent, and Then STILL Guilty" seems to pervade our society.

danh3190 · Jul 21, 2006

Very interesting thread.

As a long time (22 years) paramedic I do my best not to be alone with an impaired female (psych, EtOH, narcotics). If I don't have a female partner in the back with me I try to get a family member or sometimes a police officer to ride in the back. It's too bad, but that's the way the world is. It's just not practical to get a chaperone for all female patients.

I do my best to project a professional attitude. I always explain what I'm doing and why and I try to be matter of fact and efficient and to protect the patient's modesty as much as possible.

I don't mention the male-female issue for the same reason I don't ask patients riding backward in a bouncing ambulance if they have a history of carsickness.

Jasano · Jul 21, 2006

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

This is NOT a problem with male nurses most likely, but rather a problem with public perception of males in nursing. I doubt very much that it is the case that your male colleagues are 'trying' to offload their work onto you, as much as it is likely that the female patients specifically requested a female nurse.

It's discrimination that men face, that women do not and could not ever hope to understand. A male nurse walks in to care for a patient, and the patient is quite okay with him looking after her, until of course, lo and behold, she discovers that he's NOT a doctor! (shudder). When this occurs, suddenly the male nurse is no longer fit to render care. Yet, when a female nurse, or doctor renders care, she rarely finds the same opposition.

Again, it is discrimination, and our society is rife with it.

Women receive the benefit of quotas to enter fields ranging from policing to engineering to medicine and yet no such quotas exist to get more men into female dominated professions like banking and nursing. Even when, as in the case of medicine, there are a disproportionate number of females being enrolled in medical school, (as is the case across the country here in Canada and in Britain - where it's 60%+ female enrolment) there is no effort to rescind the quotas or to create quotas in the reverse.

In short, it sucks to be a man in today's society! Admittedly, most female patients I have encountered, do not have a problem with me administering their care, but a small number do. I try to assist in other ways when this occurs, and like many male nurses, do a lot of the heavy lifting to compensate. If your male colleagues are asking you to look after a patient's personal care, ask if this was the patient's request - 9 times out of 10 it was. If that is the case, have your colleague give out some of your meds, or assist patients with ambulation etc. while you're busy; I'm sure they'll be only too happy to help.

Jason RN

Jasano · Jul 21, 2006

OK, I have admit that I have not read every post. However, I have followed many such posts on other forums. AAMN, etc. and have but one question.
Do the female nurses require a chaperone for certain procedures like men do, as has been insinuated by some of the posts?
If not, then neither should the men. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse. I did not become a "male nurse". I checked the license in my wallet just to be sure on this one. Funny, but it just says Registered Nurse. Nurses who happen to be of the male gender should/ do have all of the same rights and responsibilities as nurses who happen to be of the female gender.
Exluding a group due to their gender/race/creed/orientation etc. etc...is illegal in most cases.
In school the only issues that I had regarding gender were discrimination by nursing staff and mostly instructors. The patients had did not say anything to nursing or my instructors, they took it upon themselves to create an issue.
With the great shortage and the fact that nursing was for hundreds of years up until Florence, a male only profession, why can't we just all get along and do what we were trained to do?
Thank you

Ha! An excellent post! I too suffered discrimination while undergoing my nursing training and can empathize with you - I rarely suffer such discrimination from members of the public or from my female colleagues, but nursing school was hell - you could tell us guys weren't wanted and that the course was not designed with men in mind AT ALL.

My license also says registered nurse strangely enough and I go out of my way to preserve the modesty of all my patients, both male and female. I think that discrimination against men is now much more prevalent in society and that it is made worse in that we men, nurses in particular, can't get the slightest ounce of either media or government attention for our plight.

Better to be discriminated against and have hundreds if not thousands of government agencies on your side and an open line to the media!

Great post once again,

Jason RN

NurseWilliam · Jul 21, 2006

I don't have a problem caring for a female patient. However, if the patient prefers female assistance with certain procedures, I respect the patient's wishes if at all possible. I know female nurses who have asked me to perform procedures for their male patients who preferred male assistance. It's not a bad practice to do that. It's respecting the autonomy and privacy of the patient. In a few cases, female nurses asked me to perform the procedures because the male patient was being inappropriate. Female nurses have sought me out for that purpose far more frequently than I have had to seek them out to perform procedures on female patients- and they do not seek my assistance in order to protect themselves from litigation; they do it simply because they find the patient's behavior personally distasteful and would rather avoid it if they could.

Is it ethical for a female nurse to refuse care for a male patient simply because he is inappropriate? I don't think so. I would even say that if a male nurse was not available, she would have to go in and do it anyway. The presence of a male nurse on the floor should not be the the determinant for the female nurse's choice to refuse to care for an inappropriate male patient any more than fear of litigation being the determinant for a male nurse's decision to refuse to care for a female patient. And if we are discussing the issue of a nurse's refusal to care for a patient of the opposite sex, the conduct of both female and male nurses should be discussed, as it is not a matter exlusive to males.

Mugwump53 · Jul 21, 2006

I am a male nurse in a uniqely precarious position. I have worked OB for almost 14 years now. I have noticed in the answers that many fear to tread where I go every day in my area of expertise.

I do try to not work with patients who have been abused. Sometimes it is hard not to, but I prefer to not get into flashbacks and possible problems.

Times I have been asked not to work with a woman usually are because the male "significant other" objects. In that case, I usually bring it up to my charge nurse and step aside, or assume someone else's patient(s) as they assume mine.

I have also had "problems" with elderly doctors. I don't have the proper genes to work with their patients and they will never use me as a chaperone, even if the patient has no problem with it. I had to quit working with one set of doctor's patients. I could triage them, but couldn't go beyond that.

I also was not taken in a job in rural Kansas because a male nurse had not "worked out" before I applied. Makes me wonder if they will quit using any nurses when a female nurse doesn't "work out" either. Then where do you go? I don't know of that many hermaphrodites, who let it be known so they can work where others cannot.

twoheadlines · Jul 21, 2006

I'm interested to read the comments of colleagues half way round the world - especially when they don't appear to be a great deal different than the "lunch room" or "water chiller" conversation that crops up from time to time where I work. As a male nurse, I have worked in elder care as well as the larger tertiary hospital environments, and must say I have never encountered any adverse situations. I have been asked by a very small number of female patients if they could be attended to by a female nurse - and that has been absolutely fine by me.

In my experience the only consensus view relating to gender issues - in both directions i.e. male nurse v female patient and female nurse v male patient should focus on safety. If you are feeling uncomfortable about a situation, or sense your patient is; then it is probably a darn good idea to get the support of a colleague of the same gender as the patient, and to offer support for the patient, such as having a family member present. Heaven forbid the day that we as a profession forget the care and support we have all undertaken to give, forgets that care is supposed to be "patient centred". We should never become that immuned to our working environment we forget that gender can be a issue for some patients and to respect their needs.

:balloons:

jb2u, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2006

If you are feeling uncomfortable about a situation, or sense your patient is; then it is probably a darn good idea to get the support of a colleague of the same gender as the patient, and to offer support for the patient, such as having a family member present. Heaven forbid the day that we as a profession forget the care and support we have all undertaken to give, forgets that care is supposed to be "patient centred". We should never become that immuned to our working environment we forget that gender can be a issue for some patients and to respect their needs.
:balloons:

if i sensed my pt was uncomfortable i would call a female, but i do not believe in asking a pt if "they would prefer a female" first. why? because it is asking which do they prefer and most would prefer a female.

the problem is I want to care for MY patients. i've been told that, when it comes to age, age doesn't matter, it's how you carry yourself that matters. i think the same should go for gender. if i carry myself as a professional then my gender SHOULD NOT matter. and as far as making the pt feel more comfortable....i can tell you that in my experience, i care alot more about my female pt's privacy then most of my female co-workers. for example, i do not just pull off a pt's gown (like i've seen my female co-workers do). instead, i put the new gown on and pull the old one out of the bottom without ever exposing the pt. same goes for changing out the cover. i put a new one on and pull the old one out from underneath. i've had female co-workers ask me what i was doing. they NEVER considered trying to protect the pt's privacy. when i give pt care, i am VERY aware of the pt's privacy and my every action, i tell the pt exactly what i am doing. if pt is aware, i give them the washcloth to clean her private areas and i will walk away to the sink to wash out the basin or at least find some reason to turn around in order to make the female pt feel more comfortable.

we can not and should not allow us men to continue to be treated like deviants. we are not. males that choose nursing choose it because we care. i hate that around every corner the fact remains that i could be falsely accused of being inappropriate, but i will never stop giving pt care out of fear of being falsely accused. i believe that no one can care for my pt's better than i can because i give outstanding care. i would NEVER force care onto a female pt., but i would never put the thought in her mind that maybe she should have a female perform such care by asking her if she would "prefer a female nurse/cna." again, i know there are certain circumstances in which a women just wants another women, but as a general rule...when it comes to nursing...male or female should not matter.

sincerely,

jay

Sodie, BSN, RN · Jul 22, 2006

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

Most of the male nurses I work with seek assistance from a female nurse to protect themselves. Male MD's have female chaperones for the same reasons. Alot could happen behind a closed door as could alot of untre accusatins. It protects these nurses and the patients. I do not mind helping them with these procedures. I have many male nurse friends that ask the patient how they feel about it as well. Many times the female patient is not comfortable with specific procedures being perfomred by a male nurse. Me-- I really don't care. When I am not well and need help, I frankly don't have a preference other than a nurse who is compassionate and meets my needs. I have had a few experiences as a patient and for the most part, I wouldn't trade any of my nurses (male or female). Some people wouldn't feel the same way.