Male Nurses/female Patients

[ern91]

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

[WannabeOrthoSurgeon]

After reading some of your posts I have a question, and comment.

Why is it that a woman can do the procedures on a male, and not have a witness but a male cannot do the procedures on a female without having a witness?

Isn't that racist of a kind?

Wouldn't it make sense that if a male needs witness to do his duties on a female, that a female needs a witness to do her duties on a male?

[Retired R.N.]

After reading some of your posts I have a question, and comment.

Why is it that a woman can do the procedures on a male, and not have a witness but a male cannot do the procedures on a female without having a witness?

Isn't that racist of a kind?

Wouldn't it make sense that if a male needs witness to do his duties on a female, that a female needs a witness to do her duties on a male?

I mentioned in an earlier post that small communities may have values that are not the same as those found in large cities. A female nurse, married or single, living and/or working in one of those communities does herself no favor by acquiring a reputation for being too eager to participate in intimate care for male patients. A witness is just as important for her as it would be for a male nurse caring for a female patient.

You can talk all you want to about nursing being gender neutral, but there's no excuse for denial of community standards of decency, whether you agree with them or not.

[WannabeOrthoSurgeon]

I mentioned in an earlier post that small communities may have values that are not the same as those found in large cities. A female nurse, married or single, living and/or working in one of those communities does herself no favor by acquiring a reputation for being too eager to participate in intimate care for male patients. A witness is just as important for her as it would be for a male nurse caring for a female patient.

You can talk all you want to about nursing being gender neutral, but there's no excuse for denial of community standards of decency, whether you agree with them or not.

I see. I guess it's just the "known" thing that a female nurse is the standard. As in most average males probably wouldn't care rather they have a male, or female as a nurse, just that they do a good job. While I see some women would probably not go to a hospital just for the fact that they have male nurses, whether they are good at the job, or not. I never ment it negative, just discussing(sp?) both sides. I personally wouldn't care if it was male, or female just that they are easy with me, and do a good job

[jo272wv]

In response to the question: I am a male nurse who does not try to get out of procedures dealing with female clients. I first and foremost ask the client if they object to me doing the procedure, most of the time they do not but some do and at that point I ask a female nurse to take over. I also will ask a female nurse to assist if I am doing procedures dealing with the female genitalia simply because I am protecting myself from posible legal issues that may arise later.

[Lesli61]

I'm a female student, (not a nurse yet) but I can tell you from experience with my two teenage sons and my husband, (who needs to get cathed every once in a while due to kidney stones); all three of them want a female nurse, not a male nurse! This seems to be the opposite of what everyone is saying, but from their point of view, it has something to do with homophobia. My husband was very uncomfortable having a male nurse do his foley, even though there is nothing sexual about it. There is always that question in their minds... Is this guy a homosexual? If he is, I don't want him touching me!

[scrmblr]

I pesonnally ask for a female to do my female patients caths. Im very comfortable doing them however i dont want to give anyone the opportunity to make a bogus claim against me. If im going to do a female cath there will be a female witness.

Heck where I work 98% or the patients have a different skin color than i do. Ems can be rolling a GSW in the door and I have the patient yelling at me when Im trying to help them. Its absoultley amazing, Let me see your shot and you dont want me to help you because of my skin color.

I would assist and have with pelvics when no female RN is present. This has been very rare but there are more and more nights where all the E.R. RN's are men.

My personnal opinion if your a man have a witness so that noone can make false accusations against you.

And for those of you that think i might be dumping on the female R.N.s, i will take all the jail patients for them, I will be standing in front of them for the daily abusive and assaultive patients. (get hit all the time) And I will take the critical patients so that they dont have to.

I like your post. I work in the ER with some nurses that sound just like you. They will gladly step up and take my abusive/assaultive/inapropriate/shackled prisoner pt's in return for my cath on a young woman.

and, honestly, if I need a fem cath done...I would rather have a female nurse...:chair: I NEVER mind doing a cath or assisting with a pelvic. The male nurses I work with will never refuse to cath a pt-they just gauge the circumstances and act with whatever is in the pt's best interest. Generally these guys are looking out for me and I in turn look out for them.

[Kabin]

Disregarding patients' preferences can be disastrous to a hospital's income statement because patients will often select the hospital they want based on their opinions of "nursing care."

I'm sure that is the case in many places but at least one well known and well respected hospital backs all male nurses by telling PTs they will help them check into another hospital if they have a problem with male nurses.

[unapt576]

Last week I witnessed something chilling.

A male CNA and I wereassisting a confused patient back to bed.

One minute she was all smiles and cooperation, an instant later she turned to him and said," if you don't let go of me I'm going to tell everyone that you raped me." At that point I told him to leave the room and not come back in. I also documented every single word in her chart, notified the supervisor and left a message for our manager.

Ok, she was confused, but I don't think that her family would have taken that into consideration if she told them that she had been raped. At the very least there would have been an investigation, and that CNA would have been put on suspension pending the outcome.

I have been a nurse for 13 years and have never witnessed something like that before, but I can tell you now, if I were a male, I would make sure that I had a witness before doing a cath., pericare or any other procedure of that nature on a female patient. The consequences of an accusation, even a false one, are frightnening.

[buddiage]

I believe much of this can be instilled in nursing school, where feminine care for those pt's was delegated to female students - my understanding a fairly common occurance (I went to school at a Catholic Hospital). From a male standpoint... 2 reasons.

First, if caring for a female pt that needs this type of care (and that task is not a great majority of my shift time), it only makes sense to have a female perform a task (from the standpoint of comfort and legal protection), and thus NOT tie up a second staffer that might need to be present as a witness.

Also, I believe this is a hot topic more on a regional basis at times. Older females in this area are generally MUCH more comfortable (as are their families) with a female performing those procedures on a female - may more so than in other regions. And quite frankly, this is one of the few topics where being a "male nurse" still makes some pt's uneasy. Men being cathed by female nurses has been done MUCH longer and is generally better accepted than males performing caths on females. Men in nursing still fight the uphill battle of acceptance at times.

Truthfully, on the rare occasions I might ask a female co-worker to cath for me or assist as a witness (I moonlight in other areas beside PI), I CERTAINLY make sure that I return the favors in any way I can - it's ALL about teamwork and caring for the patient. And honestly, as a man working in nursing, I couldn't tell you how many times I've been the first one everyone runs to when lifting is needed (more often than I've asked for caths).

I think tasks that may be assumed to be along gender roles all even out in the long run. All of the guys in our unit try their best- and we (men and women) ALL work as a team. It IS about the pateint, right?

I love this job - really - and I don't mind trading tasks here or there to make sure my patient gets what he/she needs. There are none of us - male or female - sitting down while the others bust butt...

Great post, good thread.

I agree with others, too. You can thank lawyers for making litigation so easy AND rewarding for those tempted to get money in ways other than actually work for it.

All men are not predators, piggies, or whatever stereotype people (men and women) would want to brand them with. Over time, it won't be such an issue, as long as it does not become easier and easier to sue over stuff like this.

[romie]

I'm a female student, (not a nurse yet) but I can tell you from experience with my two teenage sons and my husband, (who needs to get cathed every once in a while due to kidney stones); all three of them want a female nurse, not a male nurse! This seems to be the opposite of what everyone is saying, but from their point of view, it has something to do with homophobia. My husband was very uncomfortable having a male nurse do his foley, even though there is nothing sexual about it. There is always that question in their minds... Is this guy a homosexual? If he is, I don't want him touching me!

It amazes me how rampant homophobia is an how irrationally it causes people to behave. Men wanting female nurses seems somewhat degrading to me, as if they are sexualizing nursing practice and reinforcing sexy-nurse stereotypes. It should be the job of every nurse to educate their families about appropriate attitudes towards nursing/gender issues.

[ortess1971]

Unfortunately, our litigious society assumes that all men are predators. The fact that doctors are exempt from this assumption is claim to thier continued elevation as morally and intellectually superior to all other health care professionals.

Let's face it, all it takes is an accusation and that male nurse is run out of town on a rail (there will be the usual investigation, commonly without finding, followed by considerable stress on the floor about what really happened). The assumption of guilt is classicly conditioned. Who would want to put themselves in that position?

Please don't shoot the messenger on this subject; it is only my opinion

I agree with your post and would like to add that doctors are not necessarily exempt. I had to have a pelvic exam in an ER and the male doctor asked a female nurse to chaperone, which I though was wise of him. I would not accuse him of anything unfoundedly, but there plenty of litigious people out there that would..I believe doctors and nurses should watch their backs...sad to say, but I don't trust half of these patients as far as I can throw them.

[JohnBearPA]

Last week I witnessed something chilling.

A male CNA and I wereassisting a confused patient back to bed.

One minute she was all smiles and cooperation, an instant later she turned to him and said," if you don't let go of me I'm going to tell everyone that you raped me." At that point I told him to leave the room and not come back in. I also documented every single word in her chart, notified the supervisor and left a message for our manager.

Ok, she was confused, but I don't think that her family would have taken that into consideration if she told them that she had been raped. At the very least there would have been an investigation, and that CNA would have been put on suspension pending the outcome.

I have been a nurse for 13 years and have never witnessed something like that before, but I can tell you now, if I were a male, I would make sure that I had a witness before doing a cath., pericare or any other procedure of that nature on a female patient. The consequences of an accusation, even a false one, are frightnening.

Something very similiar happened at a facility I worked at to a male LPN. The elderly woman reported the alleged abuse to the Area Agency on Aging, which investigates such matters in my area. The resident claimed the male nurse touched her lady parts, and penetrated her digitally. The nurse was put on suspension, w/o pay, until the outcome of the investigation, which took over a week. Thankfully, the charge was unfounded, but still, at the very least, he lost a week's pay, and had to take the shame that charge brought to him. Also, his personal life (he was gay) was made public, and he chose to work at another facility after that.

My point here is this, all it takes is an allegation of inappropriate conduct to ruin a guy's life. Had that been a female nurse, and yes, I've seen that happen too, it's usually looked upon as a case of a confused resident, not an abusive nurse. This is only my personal experience, other's may not agree. It seems for some reason, men are still looked upon as predators, and there's usually some doubt after an allegation as to whether the male nurse actually did the abuse. The guy can be married, gay, christian, an upstanding member of the community, but yet there's still doubt, whereas the few female nurses I've seen implicated in such abuse are usually looked upon as the victim, the male nurses have been looked upon as the predator. Is this fair? No, but it's not going to change any time soon.

I took care of the resident that made the abuse charge on that male nurse, and I ALWAYS asked for a female CNA to come into the room with me, even if it was only to adjust her bed, do an accu-check, or administer meds. You have to protect yourself now-a-days, as one charge whether founded or not, can stay with you a long time. It may be a double standard, but guys, watch out for yourself, because you're the one who may face an unfounded charge, and your license is in jeopardy, as well as your reputation. You may be thought of as guilty until proven innocent, instead of the other way around.

This is only my opinion, based on personal experiences, so please don't flame me, I just wanted to present the guy's side as I see it.

I do help the female nurses with unruly male pts tho, and am always available if needed by any female staff member that is uncomfortable with a male pt. Also, I always ask a female pt that needs to be cathed if she'd like a female in the room, or if available, a female preforming the procedure. Usually, they seem fine with me doing the procedure. If I'm uncomfortable with the resident, I will ask for a female nurse or CNA to be in the room "assisting" me tho. It's always nice to have a witness to verify that no inappropriate behavior occurred BEFORE an abuse allegation is filed. Having seen both sides of the fence, I understand where the female nurses are coming from on unappropriate behavior from male pts.

Most guys asking for a female nurse to help them with a female pt or even do the procedure are just covering their @sses, and most female nurses, having also been there before, understand that.

:chair: