I find the term "Male Nurse" discriminatory. If you were stopped by the police for speeding, would you call the police officer "Oh, you are a female police officer!" In taking an order would you identify the attending as a "Female Doctor!" Would you refer to a firefighter or paramedic as a female medic or Firefighter. Try it and see what happens, that is mysoginist.
Lets take it a step further. Oh, you are a nurse of color. Is it ok to call a nurse the "African American Nurse or Asian Nurse etc."
We are all brothers and sisters in the profession.
we seem to have some common ground, we dislike the term nurse (actually, I abhor the term nurse). The difference is that you are content to refer to yourself as a "male RN", while I propose in my term paper a completely new term for the profession -- in the meantime, I would pacify myself by calling myself an RN or a health care professional (at the moment I can only call myself a BSN student).
The problem I see with calling myself a "male RN" is that it presupposes that there is a default sexual gender (female) that would normally go together with the term "RN."
As in: if "RN" then practitioner MUST BE female; UNLESS "male RN"
I will state again; do not dismiss this as just a matter of semantics...
the repercussions are very real: it is an enormous barrier for male adolescents' languaging and imaging such that they would never consider to pursue a career in nursing. This adds to our nursing shortage (we must recruit new blood not just from the female portion of our society -- a portion by the way, that has had significant number of other career options open up to them in modern times).
You mentioned in one of your posts that the army nursing corps lifted their ban in 1955. Well, then that's 50 years in which the army has had their masculinizing influence on the nursing profession -- and what is there to show for it? True -- within the army and other military nurse corps, the percentage of men in nursing is much higher than the civilian anemic percentage of 5 or 6% -- but it is still woefully short of being 50%-50%.
I would also venture to say that the sheer raw numbers between the civilian and military nurses makes the higher percentage of males in military nursing rather insignificant. In other words, if all military nurses were to become instantaneously civilian nurses -- I venture to say that resultant civilian nurse population would still not surpass 10% male.
It's just a word. Words change meanings and connotation. Once upon a time the "N-word" was about the worst thing that an African-American could be called. And then Dr. Dre et.al. came out with NWA and took ownership of the word and made it their own (and yes sometimes there is an "R" on the end and no I don't use the word)
Once upon a time gay meant happy, faggot mean shovel.. and so did a spade come to think of it. Words are just words. Unless you let it be offensive to you.. it's not, period.
I like the term nurse. I plan on being part of those that define the term for the next generation and not being defined by it.
Just my humble opinion,
Firstly, please do not address me as "dude"
I am not a 17 year old kid who uses that vernacular.
Secondly, I most vigorously disagree with you when you dismiss my point by simply saying that "it's just a word" and imply that words are just words.
Wrong! Words are not just words. Words are powerful -- they define our reality and they make our reality.
Your example of the "N" word is truly piss poor. Under no circumstances will an african-american person ever welcome me calling them the "N" word. Under no circumstances would I even ever think of calling an african-american the "N" word. Under no circumstances would I ever use the "N" word.
You are also dead wrong when you imply that it is one's fault if one takes offense by the perceived misuse of a word.
Let me give you an example:
When hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans; many reporters began to use the word "refugees" to describe those who were forced to leave the city due to the extensive damage. Now, you may say: "well the definition according to the dictionary says such and such, and therefore, it is correct to use the word "refugee" and if someone takes offense, well, they are lacking some basic intellect.
However, while that may be well and true; what I am saying is that the perceived meaning is what counts... the perceived meaning is what shapes our reality and when the people who were being referred to as refugees made it known that they felt that term was racist; well, I believe that we had an obligation to refer to them by the term that they embraced -- SURVIVORS.
In the same manner; I am also rejecting the word "nurse." As I said before, the word also means to breastfeed. Now, it is quite possible that many people don't even realize this -- I've certainly run across a few classmates that are oblivious to that fact. I wish then I also suffered from such ignorance -- I wouldn't be bothered by the word then.
Thirdly, the words you hold up as some sort of example: fag, gay, and spade, still have the meanings which you say "they used to have." If you were a reader, you would find that these words are used in print and that they have fidelity to their original meaning. Alas, you would have to be a reader of books to realize that.
Forgive me if I don't put my mind at ease when you state that "you will help define the meaning for future generations," since, as I pointed out to Corvette Guy, the military for over 50 years now has had their masculinizing influence on the profession, and it has been without significant effect on the overall percentages of men who choose nursing as a profession -- so if the military hasn't been able to redefine the word; I doubt you will.
One final point which I am feeling compelled to express: I am not a U.S. born person. My native language is not English. It amazes me how quickly american born English speakers complain about the misuse of the English by foreigners; yet, so often, they commit travesties against their own language -- they often misuse words, have a lackadaisacal atttitude about words that includes rampant mispronounciation, mispelling, etc... etc...
but, by God, if a foreigner should mispronounce, or mispell, they are quickly marked as a possible endargement to the patient.
Battpos, you have made some very interesting point (with some palable anger). I understand and appreciate them and allow you your rightful mindset as you choose.
It doesn't sit right with me that men coming into a profession ask that the very name that has been used for generations be changed because one of the definitions of the verb nurse means to breast feed, in order to masculinize the profession to bring more men in.
I think men who are nurses should be responsible for brining more men into the profession through various means, but rejecting the term nurse seems a bit too confrontational.
Yes, it would help the nursing shortage to get more men in the profession, but that should be your job as men in nursing to present our profession as a worthy profession for men, without asking the name to be changed to something to suit ourselves.
Masculanizing the nursing profession doesn't quite sit with me. I'll have to ponder that one for a while.
Battpos, you have made some very interesting point (with some palable anger). I understand and appreciate them and allow you your rightful mindset as you choose.
It doesn't sit right with me that men coming into a profession ask that the very name that has been used for generations be changed because one of the definitions of the verb nurse means to breast feed, in order to masculinize the profession to bring more men in.
Okay, then why did we stop using the terms fireman, policeman, stewardess, mailman... etc..? I thought it was because they were very gender-biased.
Please do not confuse verb forms with noun forms. The difference is the difference.
Thank you,
I'm glad to know that someone read my posting. I will also consult my writing resource book to make sure I don't make that mistake again. Thanks for the pointer.
Okay, then why did we stop using the terms fireman, policeman, stewardess, mailman... etc..? I thought it was because they were very gender-biased.
Good point. Women in the police force don't want to say "I'm a policeman". However, the noun "nurse" is a bit more gender neutral. Both men and women can say "I'm a nurse" and people will know what they do.
I'm still not convinced because one of the meanings of the verb "nurse" means to breastfeed, it needs to be addressed.
Specializes in I got hurt and went to the ER once.
Firstly, please do not address me as "dude"
I am not a 17 year old kid who uses that vernacular.
Secondly, I most vigorously disagree with you when you dismiss my point by simply saying that "it's just a word" and imply that words are just words.
Wrong! Words are not just words. Words are powerful -- they define our reality and they make our reality.
Your example of the "N" word is truly piss poor. Under no circumstances will an african-american person ever welcome me calling them the "N" word. Under no circumstances would I even ever think of calling an african-american the "N" word. Under no circumstances would I ever use the "N" word.
Battpos = Battery Positive
I have had black folks say it was ok for me to use the "N" word. Ok only two.. and I still don't. Actually, I'm white and they call me that on occasion. If it's in a song that Im singing I usually say it.
Also, I agree words are powerful. Words move nations e.g. The I have a dream speach comes to mind.. and I always get chill when I hear Dr. Kings voice.
Anyways, I'm just offering another way to look at it. Your points are valid too I don't completely dismiss them. The term Nurse offends you, it doesn't offend me. No big deal. The word Nurse isn't going away nor will it change connotations anytime soon.
Good point. Women in the police force don't want to say "I'm a policeman". However, the noun "nurse" is a bit more gender neutral. Both men and women can say "I'm a nurse" and people will know what they do.
I'm still not convinced because one of the meanings of the verb "nurse" means to breastfeed, it needs to be addressed.
With all due respect to you, I will ask you to step and "think outside the box." The people who come to allnurses.com and read a thread such as this are in all likelihood, people who have made a very serious, deep commitment to the nursing profession.
I am trying to address a point that requires you to use your imagination and think about that high school teenager who is pondering the great question of "what will I do with the rest of my life?"
Recall the great late Erik Erikson and his psychosocial dilemmas. For adolescents, the dilemma is one of Identity versus Role Confusion. I quote from my psychology class textbook: "adolescents must build a consistent identity out of their talents, values, life history, relationships, and their culture."
The adolescent then, thinks about possible career tracks and will chose the one that more closely reflects his or her ideals, values, and aspirations.
All I'm trying to say is that for a male adolescent who is trying to make sense of the proper direction to take in life, it just doesn't help our profession any if there is this stigmatization of nursing by old Victorian values and by the fact that the word nurse also means to breastfeed.
Could you honestly blame the adolescent if he decides that he doesn't want anything to do with such a career simply because it doesn't fit with his languaging and imaging?
I cannot, since it is my own personal experience that I had to grapple with that issue myself when I was in the midst of making my decision to pursue a second career! And I made that decision when I was 34 years old!
Good point. Women in the police force don't want to say "I'm a policeman". However, the noun "nurse" is a bit more gender neutral. Both men and women can say "I'm a nurse" and people will know what they do.
I'm still not convinced because one of the meanings of the verb "nurse" means to breastfeed, it needs to be addressed.
the word Nurse is extremely gender biased BECAUSE only women can breastfeed!
Additionally, you seem to be saying that if a woman said she was a mailman -- we would not know what she did for a living? That makes no sense.
It doesn't sit right with me that men coming into a profession ask that the very name that has been used for generations be changed because one of the definitions of the verb nurse means to breast feed, in order to masculinize the profession to bring more men in.
If all that was needed to make decisions was to look at "what has been done for generations," then I do ask you -- why are they teaching me in school all this jazz about "Evidence Based Nursing?"
I have had black folks say it was ok for me to use the "N" word. Ok only two.. and I still don't. Actually, I'm white and they call me that on occasion. If it's in a song that Im singing I usually say it.
Also, I agree words are powerful. Words move nations e.g. The I have a dream speach comes to mind.. and I always get chill when I hear Dr. Kings voice.
Anyways, I'm just offering another way to look at it. Your points are valid too I don't completely dismiss them. The term Nurse offends you, it doesn't offend me. No big deal. The word Nurse isn't going away nor will it change connotations anytime soon.
Darth N
The word nurse doesn't offend me either. If someone calls me a nurse; which I expect will happen on a daily basis once I pass NCLEX, I suppose I would have to be a raving idiot if I took offense.
What I am saying is that I hate the word nurse, and that I do believe it is causing harm to our profession by keeping possible candidates from ever entering this field and thereby relieving this supposed nursing shortage that will by all accounts I have read -- only get worse.
However, I do disagree with you when you say that it is impossible that our profession could not ever decide to ditch the word nurse and adopt another name for our profession -- it has happened in other professions where the original term was deemed gender biased -- and as in the case I pointed to with hurricane Katrina -- if enough people make their voices heard -- change can be forthcoming.
Corvette Guy
1,505 Posts
No need to address me as Mr. Corvette Guy, LOL.
- Proud to be a Male RN