Make Advanced Practice Nurses Independent

Published

Nurses need a more independent role, report argues - Health - Health care - msnbc.com

A new report released today may give nurses with advanced degrees a potent

weapon in their perennial battle to get the authority to practice without a

doctor's oversight.

Specializes in General.

Mrs T,

Instead of building coalitions to advance what nurses are legally allowed to do, how about you spend some of that time improving nursing education so that DNPs graduate with more than 800 clinical hours.

Somehow you think that because the nursing lobby has pushed for expanded practice rights, that makes it ok for a poorly trained practitioner to practice independently. Just because a politician ok'ed it doesn't mean it is ok. If you knew how little you actually know when compared to an attending, you would be too ashamed to call yourself doctor.

I was under the mistaken impression that the DNP offered more of the hard sciences so far all I have seen is Financial Management and Budget Planning, Qauntiative Methods to evaluate health care, more leadership courses etc in any DNP program I have looked into. This looks more business driven than any thing.Still DR does not = MD

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I was under the mistaken impression that the DNP offered more of the hard sciences so far all I have seen is Financial Management and Budget Planning, Qauntiative Methods to evaluate health care, more leadership courses etc in any DNP program I have looked into. This looks more business driven than any thing

but how can you practice medicine with only business driven skills like you mentioned? let alone independent? you mentioned yourself that there isn't even close to enough diagnostic/pathophys/pharm/"hard sciences" in your "fake-doctor" curriculum.

Can MBA's be doctors now? How about MPH's ? Let me know, I'd sure be willing to apply.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.

Mrs T,

If you knew how little you actually know when compared to an attending, you would be too ashamed to call yourself doctor.

Thanks much, but with over two decades in health care, I'm pretty confortable with what I know, and humbled by what I don't know. Moreover, I don't call myself "doctor"...others do. Welcome to the need deal and thanks for your support.

Dr. T

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Thanks much, but with over two decades in health care, I'm pretty confortable with what I know, and humbled by what I don't know. Moreover, I don't call myself "doctor"...others do. Welcome to the need deal and thanks for your support.

Dr. T

you just called yourself doctor.

FAIL.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.

I was under the mistaken impression that the DNP offered more of the hard sciences so far all I have seen is Financial Management and Budget Planning, Qauntiative Methods to evaluate health care, more leadership courses etc in any DNP program I have looked into. This looks more business driven than any thing.Still DR does not = MD

After you complete a DNP program, do let us know if you feel the same way.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.

you just called yourself doctor.

FAIL.

That's what we call a "signature." Do let me know if you need more help in identifying message elements.

Dr. T

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That's what we call a "signature." Do let me know if you need more help in identifying message elements.

Dr. T

A signature that you yourself wrote, not "other" people... I see your IQ level mainly because because you first state "I dont call myself dr....other people do"

and then your signature is "Dr. T"

oh, common sense.

They didn't have "common sense 101" in your DNP program? I heard that helps with clinical skills.:smokin:

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I'm the first one to groan when this subject comes up, but I really don't want this thread closed. We have two devout partisans who are wed to their positions, and can express themselves eloquently. I want to see it fought out.

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Specializes in General.

After you complete a DNP program, do let us know if you feel the same way.

what hard sciences does Duke offer for the DNP I looked at the course description a few months ago and saw nothing about the hard sciences only Qauntitative measures for health outcomes etc, I was hoping for more advanced patho etc maybe embryology genetics but I did not see that in the couse description. I checked into the program since you were so gung ho about it. Maybe because I just graduated in 09 I just felt is was not for me, glad to hear you are liking it and doing well. Hey and where are you working anyway

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Specializes in General.

but how can you practice medicine with only business driven skills like you mentioned? let alone independent? you mentioned yourself that there isn't even close to enough diagnostic/pathophys/pharm/"hard sciences" in your "fake-doctor" curriculum.

Can MBA's be doctors now? How about MPH's ? Let me know, I'd sure be willing to apply.

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From what I have observed, clinical hour requirements for some dnp programs just include hours that they work as an NP while they are in the program. Is this true ?

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Thanks much, but with over two decades in health care, I'm pretty confortable with what I know, and humbled by what I don't know. Moreover, I don't call myself "doctor"...others do. Welcome to the need deal and thanks for your support.

Dr. T

I mean that's just funny. I have some pliers here if you need to remove the foot from your mouth.

After you complete a DNP program, do let us know if you feel the same way.

Well I actually went to medical school and I am now a doctor at the #1 hospital in the country so I don't know why I would take a step back.

I have a few issues with DNP education

1) there are only about 80 credits you need to get a "clinical" doctorate, many of which are the actual clinical hours

2) Many programs require only 800-1000 clinical hours

3) Half of the didactic courses are non-clinical fluff (nursing education, nursing leadership, statistics)

4) There is almost no difference between a masters and a doctorate level NP in terms of clinical courses and clinical hours

5) The DNP was nothing more than a political ploy to give NPs more independence. Add the word doctorate and it doesn't matter if there is actually a change between a masters and a doctorate, the politicians will eat it up.

I know that each class in medical school was useful. There was no room to remove anything clinically useful for things like "Nursing Leadership" without severely compromising education. At most dnp programs, more than half of all courses in DNP programs are not clinically useful.

There is no change in education between an NP (masters) and a DNP curriculum with the exception of non-clinical fluff. I have compared the two in the past on this board. If needed, I will break it out again and it will make people think twice about calling you doctor.

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