LPN versus CMA

Nurses LPN/LVN

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I was thinking at first of going for my Medical Assistant degree, since I want to work in a clinic so badly. I heard so much about how LPN's are getting phased out and only CMA's are getting jobs at clinics, and CMA's are higher up than LPN's. This of course coming from recruters from CMA programs. It would seem that the only difference between CMA's and LPN's are the fact that Med Asst's. get training in lab and x-ray. Well, I already am a certified Phlebotomist, and so I have that going. Any of you guys and gals work alongside Med Assts? Anyone work in clinics? :balloons:

Specializes in Geriatrics.

Still- A CMA never, ever will be able to call themselves a NURSE

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Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.
My bolds (since I don't know how to multi-quote :chuckle )

CMA's do not have the same studies. LPN's have in-depth A + P, med-surg, pathophysiology, pharmacology, assessments, etc.

I don't think any CMA is beneath me at all. Just different jobs and duties.

You are not qualified to do anything an LPN can do. You are not able to assess a patient and then perform a nursing intervention based on the assessment. Urinary catheterization? Administer sliding scale insulin based on blood sugar? D/C IV's? Change a running IV into a saline lok? Assess for pain and then decide on an appropriate dose of prn narcotics? Work on a med/surg ward/ER ect in a hospital? And many, many more tasks.

And once again, you cannot do exactly what an LPN can do. THere are many, many things that CMAs do and do well. THere are some things that CMAs know how to do that LPNs don't. But the two jobs ARE NOT interchangeable.

It sounds like you are proud of your education and title and that is great, but don't equate yourself to a nurse because you don't have the same education, qualifications and licensure.

I live in an area that LPN's are fully utilized and not being phased out in the least. So don't assume that all LPN's have to go back to school to get more education. I will never be without a job as an LPN.

You asked for a list, here is some of it in bold. This is my post from yesterday.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.
Hospital, remember we work under direct supervision just like LPN's

Oh and just to give my :2cents: on this statement. Yes, I am under the supervision of an RN, but here's my work situation.

84 residents divided into 4 hallways. 1 LPN per hallway, 2 RN's per 40 or 44 residents. And that's just on weekdays. Evenings and all weekend, 1 RN for all 84 residents.

The RN does not "directly" supervise me. I admin all meds, treatments, assessments and perform necessary nursing interventions based on my assessments that are within my scope. If I need advanced directive, I call for the RN. There is no way the RN can be "directly" supervising all 4 LPN's at once. If I have a shift that goes very smoothly, I have very limited contact with the RN except for saying hello.

I work under my own license and am responsible for my own actions. I am very grateful that the RN is there and can be called upon when something arises that is beyond my knowledge or scope, but he/she is in no way "directly" supervising me.

In the acute care setting at my local hospital, an LPN has his/her own patient load and is responsible for all apsects of patient care for those patients with the exception of starting IV's and IV med pushes or medicated IV bag hanging. The RN has his/her own patient load and by no means is hovering over the shoulder of the LPN.

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Specializes in medical assistant.
to add to my above post ma's also practice in hospitals, clinics and any other facility that an rn, lpn/lvn, or cna's do.

don't get it twisted--ma's do not work in the same places as lpn's (not in the same capacity). case in point:

places where a ma can work:

dr's ofc--yes; hosp (direct pt care)--no ; hosp (outpt ofc)--yes/no;clinic--yes/no;nursing home--no ; home health care--no ; private duty/1 on 1--no

places where a lpn can work:

dr's ofc--yes; hosp (direct pt care)--yes; hosp (outpt ofc)--yes; clinic--yes; nursing home-yes; home health care--yes; private duty/1 on 1--yes

out of 7 possible job settings, a lpn can legally work in all 7, while a ma can legally work in only 3 (but sometimes only 1); so please explain, in what universe can a ma can practice anywhere and perform the same functions/duties as a lpn (who is a licensed individual) can-as many of your previous posts have implied?:confused:

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Where does it state that we can't or its against the law!? We may not do home health or ptivate duty...but there is not a facility that we cannot practice! It all depends on the regulations of the state. http://www.aama.org and even on this site it states that MA's, CMA's, RMA's are able to practice in clics, Dr.s' offices, hospitals etc. We are different yes but are not pigeon-holed!

A retraction....the above link is incorrect. Its substitute is http://www.medicalassistant.net

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Specializes in medical assistant.

my dearest fellow poster,

did you not read/understand the word "legally"? also, do you not realize that although while you, as a ma, may very well be allowed to work in some of the same places as a lpn, your job duties/functions are vastly different-i.e. in a nh or on a hosp floor, you would be either a unit clerk or a pca (nurse's aide)-if you were a unit clerk, you would not be allowed to have direct pt contact; if you were a pca (nurse's aide), you would have very limited (permitted to take vitals, assist lpn/rn/dr when needed, change bed linens, bathe pt-if assistance in this area is needed by pt) pt contact & very limited access to billing/charting.

by the by, i have knowledge of these very facts because of this: 1) i am a ma with 20 yrs experience, 2) a very dear friend is a cna with 14 yrs experience in the nh & in the hospital, and 3) 2 other very dear friends are rn's with 14 & 18 yrs experience in the hospitals & in the private sector. based on these factors, i'm confident that what i've written is true for pa. because of my years working as a medical assistant, i am in no way demeaning the profession, but it irritates the crap out of me when someone talks like being a ma is so great-in some ways it's really cool, but in others it's just a b****, 'cause i know that i'm being asked to do something i legally shouldn't be allowed to do, but if i refuse, it can be considered "insubordination" and i could be fired for it.

i'm sorry, but i don't feel comfortable putting the license of those who worked/studied hard for it on the line for actions that i know i'm not legally/ethically allowed to perform-no matter who tells me to do it. maybe you're ok with that though.

*by the way, what state do you work in?*

hey everyone, don't forget to spellcheck--lol

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I understand what your saying in all respect and aspects but what you fail to realize that LEGALLY/ETICALLY I can do those things minus HH and PD. In the hospital it does suck because we have to the work of a CNA, CMA, PCT, & NA. So it bites yes but, once again I repeat that it is governed by the state and there is a certification that has to be taken first (for the 50th time) just like an LPNs' licensure. When a physician asks you to do something whatever it is he is putting his butt on the line no matter what your title is because it is documented that those instructions are per him/her. Yet I agree we as medical professionals all have a creed and standard of ethics as well as legalities to follow and wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it.

Btw I'm in Tn.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.
I understand what your saying in all respect and aspects but what you fail to realize that LEGALLY/ETICALLY I can do those things minus HH and PD. In the hospital it does suck because we have to the work of a CNA, CMA, PCT, & NA. So it bites yes but, once again I repeat that it is governed by the state and there is a certification that has to be taken first (for the 50th time) just like an LPNs' licensure. When a physician asks you to do something whatever it is he is putting his butt on the line no matter what your title is because it is documented that those instructions are per him/her. Yet I agree we as medical professionals all have a creed and standard of ethics as well as legalities to follow and wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it.

Btw I'm in Tn.

When a physician gives a doctors order for a nurse to carry out, it is NOT his/her butt on the line. If the nurse fails to carry out the action or does it incorrectly, it is the NURSES license at stake. Not the doctor's!

Edited to add: Even if the nurse carries out an order that is incorrectly written/ordered by a physician, it is still their butt on the line as they should know enough to question the order/medication/dose etc.

All nurses work under their own license and are responsible and accountable for their own actions. Hence, the LICENSE. A CMA does not work under a license and is therefore under the license of the doctor.

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That IS what I was trying to convey! Apologies for any misconceptions!!

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Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

ok tell me what you can do that i cant as a lvn

actually we do more than lpn's..
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Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

i went to this site and maybe you should go read it as well. medical assistants are not allowed to

triage- which includes nursing assessments

give medical advice

make recommendations of any kind...

i bet i can dig and find way more...

i'm sure you could work in a hospital ,but not in the aspect that a nurse would. no hospital is going to put a non- licensed person in charge of taking care of patients..no way its just to big of a liability and your cert wont hold up in court .

where does it state that we can't or its against the law!? we may not do home health or ptivate duty...but there is not a facility that we cannot practice! it all depends on the regulations of the state. www.aama.org and even on this site it states that ma's, cma's, rma's are able to practice in clics, dr.s' offices, hospitals etc. we are different yes but are not pigeon-holed!

a retraction....the above link is incorrect. its substitute is www.medicalassistant.net

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Specializes in medical assistant.

to the posters right before me,

thank you for understanding what i was saying--even if our tn poster (for whom the comments were intended) did not.

to all cna's, ma's, lpn's, rn's, & any other healthcare professional reading this post--please go back and read all post beginning with the ones from 2005, you'll see that many of these issues are quite redundant. many times a new member will see this forum and decide to post after only reading the last few posts-which are normally a rehashing of old issues. now, to quote /paraphrase rodney king--"can't we all just get along?" lol

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