Published
A little history,
I have been an LPN for approximately five years in the state of Arkansas, the first three of those in the adolescent/adult acute mental health setting. I quickly became disenfranchised with my role (pill pusher) and finally decided I would go back to school for my ASN.
I thought it would be in my best interest to gain some of my skills back before going back to school, so I applyed at a local hospital to work in their med/surg unit, I chose this hospital because it still did primary care nursing versus team. My orientation was very brief (approx. two twelve hour shifts) I was very uncomfortable given my lack of experience on medical floors but I am a quick learner and I caught on rather quickly.
I was quite frankly amazed at the amount of duties I was not only permited, but required to do. I explained to my NM that I had no experience inserting, maintaining or administering meds through an IV, CVL etc. I was promptly scheduled for what they call out here a LPN II class. The class consisted of two eight hour days of instruction on how to insert IV cathters, push meds, drop NG tube, maintain and draw from CVL and a few more things I don't remember.
Suffice it to say I didn't really feel comfortable doing all the things I was taught in 16 hours to sick REAL patients, so I would usually drag another nurse with me the first few times I performed a new procedure. I quickly realized that the buck stopped with me, I was responsible for ALL of this patients care, no RN safety net to fall back on. Yes I could go to the charge nurse if I was unsure about something etc., but if the proverbial ****** hit the fan it was my ass on the line.
I started to wonder if all this was copacetic with my scope of practice as an LPN, in Arkansas LPN's are technically not permited to "assess or evaluate" only report objective findings. Yet here I was doing admission assesments, head to toe assesments, neuro checks etc. Once a shift the RN was required to make one narrative entry in the chart, they would basically come by and write Pt. resting quietly, eyes closed 0 s/s of acute distress noted. (I worked night shift).
I called my state board and did various other reasearch and was basically told that the majority of duties I was performing were in my scope of practice as long as I was under the supervision of an RN. I guess supervision of an RN is a rather subjective term and the hospital justified it by having a "Charge Nurse".
Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the autonomy but then it struck me one day, here I am pushing morphine, dropping NG tubes filling out assesments, starting IV's etc. basically functioning as an RN with all the responsbility and legal liability minus hanging blood/blood products and doing care plans but have only received 16 hours training in a few traditionally RN type duties and am only being compensated as an LPN.
I began to wonder what if something really bad happened, I made a mistake or I didn't catch something in an assesment would the charge nurse have been responsible also, since I was technically working under the supervision of an RN? Why would an RN take that responsbility?
I soon after put in my two week notice, I had planned on leaving anyways due to the "new" unit manager refusing to hire nurses stating that 1:9 nurse to patient ratio was perfectly okay on a med/surg unit.
I hired on at a few agencies and eventually took a position at a Long term acute care facility (no not a nursing home, are average patient is on a vent, receiving TPN with a MRSA infected decube lol). This facility employed team nursing, and the average nurse to patient ration 2:7, 1 RN and 1 LPN to seven patients. I was only reponsible for PO meds, IVPB meds and chart checks, the RN was responsible for Nursing assesments, charting, IVP meds and dressing changes.
I am a little wiser now, I no longer wish to take full responsbility for patient care, yes I "CAN" start an IV, do an assesment, drop an NG tube, push IV narcotics etc. and many times I have been asked to by the RN I am working with but now I say NO and explain myself if the RN cares to hear my explanation. I am not compensated to do this, I have not received the amount of training you have to do this and most of all if I do it and screw it up its your ass for delegating it to me.
Am I wrong for thinking like this? Yes I will still assist a new RN with a difficult IV insertion etc. but I refuse to play RN while being compensated as an LPN! I am currently working towards receiving my ASN via excelsior, and once I pass state boards and am a Registered Nurse I will gladly take that responsbility, in the mean time I will gladly work under the SUPERVISION of my RN.
You don't say what state you practice in..........This doesn't sound at all like NY.
Dunno where they were (this thread is quite old) but I'll tell you one thing:
Makes me damn glad I'm working in the hospital I'm at now! At my last facility, they did have RNs doing things that they shouldn't have (at least by the Florida BON guidelines and standards) but nothing on the scale of some of these posts. The facility I'm at now is a teaching hospital, -you kind of have to be on your toes when the new residents come, just because they ARE new to their field as well, so you want to keep your eyes open in case they either miss something, or need something that wouldn't normally be asked for. -I'm new as an RN, and am enjoying it because I see a bit more than I would in other hospitals. In any case, I'm glad I work where I do.
I have had my license since August of 2005...so I reckon you can say I'm still crawling with some walking involve here with my newly license as a Practical Nurse
I live in the state of Mississippi. I am trying to find "word for word," what I legally can do when it comes to skills, such as -- Nasobronchial suctioning.
I was told by an RN -- "You cannot suction nasobronchially because that is out of your leaque. Only RNs can do that."
This is coming from an RN who has been one for 14 years et according to him, when I asked, why -- "I was told that LPNs cannot suctioned nasobronchially when I was going through RN school. You can suctioned by mouth."
I said, OK. But when I was going through the LPN program [2004/2005], I was taught how to suctioned nasobronchially, by mouth, et by trach. So where at does it say I cannot suctioned nasobronchially et who is saying that is out my league as a LPN.
Yes I am and have been trying to find this information in the Nurse Practice Act for the state of Mississippi. Have not been able to find it.
So with saying that, could someone please direct me to where it says "word for word, that LPNs cannot suctioned nasobronchially that is the duty of an RN."
Also another reason why I have a problem with this RN's words -- the hospital that I work at is a newly Emergency Access Hospital. On my shift, there is 1-RN [who works the ER] with 1 LPN [also works in the ER], 1 LPN et 1 CNA who works the floor. Yes I work the floor. Had a patient who has thick yellow tinge to off white mucus. When she becomes congestive, her HR shoots up above 200 bpm. Resp up above 30 bpm, et O2 Sats decrease below 80%.
By the time that I can walk from her room to the nurses desk, to call by intercom around to the ER to get the RN there to suction this patient, I can have it allready done, with HR dropping to 80 bpm, Resp, down to 12 - 16 bpm et O2 sats up to 100%.
Also by the time I call the RN to get her butt around there to the floor, she could be in an emergency situation with not one but maybe three at a time patients et if I have to wait for her to get around to the floor this could cause this patient to go into cardiac arrest or resp. failure -- anything major--even death.
So not trying to be a rebel here, I'm just thinking critically here et what I was taught et how just suctioning this pt can bring her heart et resp etc.... back to normal ranges.
So please if anyone can help, please direct me to where it says "word for word, that LPNs cannot suction nasobronchially, just PO only," so that I can bring this to my DON's attention so that she can have an RN working with me on the floor. To save valuable et precious time when it comes to the patients who has to be suctioned nasobronchially.
Thank You,
Teresa
Yikes! I don't care who tells me I can insert a needle for intrathecal drugs, I haven't done this, and nothing you can pay me will get me to do this without proper training. I'm an RN. I would consider watching someone else do it - more than once- insufficient training to do that procedure. I could just imagine using the "see one, do one, teach one" approach on a patient for that. The same would apply to things that I consider invasive and really risky if you don't do it right: insertion of suprapubic catheters, insertion of an IJ line, etc.
The hospital I work for trains OR nurses for at least 9 months so I guess that as far as surgical assist goes, maybe, just maybe, they are getting enough training to do ... whatever it is they are doing.
I'm aware of the things that could happen to my patients while I'm doing things that are routine for both LPN's and RN's, and there are times when the knowledge of the responsibility for life or death situations is sobering, to say the least. Mistakes can happen anywhere, anytime and people could suffer and/or die because of them. Yes, we're careful, but maybe I have new nurse syndrome to be thinking about all that could happen... I hope to not lose the ability to feel this responsibility. (Although I could use a little more relaxation!)
Now as a new, non-travel RN, I don't make as much as the travelling LPN here, unless I'm on overtime pay or callback pay. My pay is enough to support my family in its current situation, and I think that's acceptable. I would not feel at all comfortable doing all of this for $5-$8 less per hour though. Pay does affect a person's willingness to accept the burden of life or death, day in and day out, because we don't live at work. (Most of us don't.) Pay affects things like attitude, burnout, etc. Pay is a message, from the employer to the employee, of the employee's worth. Anyone who doesn't like doing the same job for less money, is probably anyone with a family. I would consider doing my job for no money as a volunteer in very specific circumstances, but I would not allow an employer to insult my skills by paying me so much less than my worth.
Terri D
2 Posts
I graduated LPN school in 96...our scope of practice here in ky could be a little broader, I think. We learned to do NG tubes, G tubes, and IV insertions. Our latest thing added was being able to flush a central line....not access it..just flush. We did not learn to do blood draws and are not able to do that unless training has been done.