LPN-RN partnership in nursing-a gentle reminder

nurseunderwater · Jun 4, 2004

just thought i would pop in and check this out.....now leaving. seems we wind up bantering about the same ol' same ol'. have fun.

Kate

Dixiedi · Jun 5, 2004

Leesonlpn,
What you posted was very well put! I am an RN, but have worked with LPN's over the course of my 4 year career. Most were good but a few had a problem with us RN's. I am sure that you get "dumped" on a lot. I have never considered myself above empying a bedpan or a urinal. The last hospital I worked at made the RN's cover the LPN's assignment. So if I had 6 pt's of my own and had to cover 2 of the LPN's 6 pts then I actually had 8 patients that I was responsible for. I was required to assess the LPN's pt's that I was assigned to cover then I had to co-sign the LPN's charting and if there was a problem that warranted calling the Doctor I had to do that as well. In PA, LPN's are not allowed to accept phone orders from Doctors. Not complaining here just explaining. Now I don't work side by side with any LPNs. I learned a lot from some of the ones that I used to work with and what you posted was very well put!
Kelly:)

Wow! I can't believe you had to assess your LPNs pts! And Co-sign her charting! Is your hospital stuck in the dark ages?! WOW! Never heard of such a thing!

LPN4Life · Jul 19, 2004

I think it would be dishonest of me to say I regard LPN's as the same as RN's when it is quite clear that I don't. However, I am responding to this post as this is my point of view and yes I'm sure it is very different from yours.
I am not concerned with how an MD or a nurse with more education treats me. I will be doing my job regardless of their attitude because their assessment of abilities doesn't mean a thing to me. If, however, they have a legitimate concern over my nursing care then I will deal with that when it happens.
Let us hope that my job performance doesn't have to reley on one of these compassionate LPN's to save the day.
Mito

I will never forget what my nursing instructor said one day:

Nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense....that is why some LPN's feel they are more knowledgeable than some RN's we run across.

Believe me, you can reley on this compassionate LPN on any given day to save the day. Confidence comes from knowledge, and knowledge coupled with common sense makes for a darn good nurse, LPN or RN.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 20, 2004

....Nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense.....

I certainly disagree- signed former CNA, then LPN, now RN.

LPN4Life · Jul 20, 2004

I certainly disagree- signed former CNA, then LPN, now RN.

Well as an LPN that is an ADON to a 160 bed facility, does MDS's careplans, staffing, nursing supply, infection control, behavior management, among other numerous tasks, and have been told by nursing consultants that my grasp on the RAI process is far better than some RN's they have worked with, I'd say it applies in my personal situation.

Signed former Wal-mart cashier, bath aide, CNA, LPN/ADON

UCLARN · Jul 20, 2004

Now granting I don't agree with what Mito said and her behavior is clearly arrogant, I don't agree with you have said either. She hasn't had any real life nursing experiences yet, so her attitude will change once those nurses get a hand at her. As for you, how shameful for a charge nurse to say such things. Your favorite thing to do to uppity RN's is to basically teach them a lesson by giving them total patient care while others don't have it as bad. I'm surprised no one has written you up or filed a complaint. Why not counsel them instead of that type of childish behavior. They are adults, just like you are, and should be treated as such!

Hey Brownie,
I try to be a tolerant and kind member of any staff I'm a part of, but as a charge nurse my favorite thing to do to uppity RN's whether they are new grads or experienced nurses was to let them take total patient care until they adjusted their attitude. If an RN can't be a be a nurse...but only an RN, only a title, then they need some time in the trenches. If it burns them out before they learn their lesson....tough. Most of the nurses I've worked with would rather work short-staffed than work with a trouble-maker. Mito will find out that there is a vast gulf between clinicals and being on the floor. Mito will also learn that smart people gather knowlege from wherever they can. Mito obviously doesn't understand that it takes more than just an RN to give excellent health care. I've noticed that people who start in the medical profession as CNA's have one of two attitudes. They either remember where they came from....and treat ALL staff with respect....or they try to get even for all the disrespect they were shown when they were CNA's by being disrespectful to others. On the average those with the second attitude make really crappy nurses.
It also gives us a reminder as nurses. Be kind to your CNA's. They may someday embarrass you to death when they become nurses and ask exactly like you have taught them to act.
A nurse is a... nurse is a... nurse ia a... nurse is a... nurse is a... nurse.
I hope that your friend does well with her internship here in the States. One of the best new grads I EVER worked with came from Canada. Unfortunately we lost her to a better hospital in Arizona.
Ann

UCLARN · Jul 20, 2004

I second that!!! If all you needed to take care of patients effectively was by having 10% nursing knowledge and 90% common sense, we could become nurses not in 4 years but 1 month!! Boy that was silly...

I certainly disagree- signed former CNA, then LPN, now RN.

Originally Posted by LPN4Life

....Nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense.....

LPN4Life · Jul 20, 2004

I second that!!! If all you needed to take care of patients effectively was by having 10% nursing knowledge and 90% common sense, we could become nurses not in 4 years but 1 month!! Boy that was silly...
Originally Posted by LPN4Life
....Nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense.....

Well obviously you have the knowledge or you wouldn't have graduated nursing school..............

What that statement means, is that when your out there on the floor or in any given situation, YES you have to have knowledge, but if you lack common sense to go along with your knowledge then what good does your knowledge do you?

I was reading a post by Hello Nurse, the one that said she totally disagreed with my statement, on another thread, something about one of your worst experiences as a nurse, she was an LPN at the time, and the RN was sleeping when the pt needed pain meds, then the RN went out to smoke first before giving the pain meds...........Sure the nurse had the knowledge to know that Prioritizing, a pt comes before a nap or a smoke break at work, and I bet she had the knowledge to even know how to pass that med, or assess that patient, but where is her common sense in this situation?

NO.....I sure didn't mean that you only learn 10% knowledge, that is silly.............

NursesRmofun, ASN, RN · Jul 20, 2004

well as an lpn that is an adon to a 160 bed facility, does mds's careplans, staffing, nursing supply, infection control, behavior management, among other numerous tasks, and have been told by nursing consultants that my grasp on the rai process is far better than some rn's they have worked with, i'd say it applies in my personal situation.
signed former wal-mart cashier, bath aide, cna, lpn/adon

i would say that the statement that "nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense" is still wrong, imo. you are obviously self-educated or otherwise educated (maybe by on the job training?) to some degree. it is not just common sense that is backing up your ability to carry through with your responsibilities, as far as i'm concerned....no matter what you may say to the contrary. not trying to be argumentative...but some things just don't make sense.

signed,

liza, ex-cna, ex-lpn, rn

LPN4Life · Jul 20, 2004

i would say that the statement that "nursing is 10% knowledge and 90% common sense" is still wrong, imo. you are obviously self-educated or otherwise educated (maybe by on the job training?) to some degree. it is not just common sense that is backing up your ability to carry through with your responsibilities, as far as i'm concerned....no matter what you may say to the contrary. not trying to be argumentative...but some things just don't make sense.
signed,
liza, ex-cna, ex-lpn, rn

i never said that it was just common sense that was backing up your ability to carry through with your responsibilities.

but when someone is lacking common sense, their knowledge alone isn't going to get them through carrying out their responsibilities either.

as a nursing student, my patient's bs was staying in the upper 400's, the doctor, his nurse couldn't figure out what was going on with him, even as a student, that had very little knowledge at this point, and hardly any experience, i noticed that his iv abt was being hung with dextrose. common sense stuff.

assessing a patient requires knowledge, but pulling it all together and figuring out what to do with that res, and what the problem is, requires common sense.

i never try to be arguementitive on this board, and certainly don't think that anyone that disagrees with my post is arguing with me, its an opinion, and whether people disagree with it or not, it still remains my opinion.

only a harmless discussion.....:)

Chevelle · Jul 20, 2004

"you can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... so let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts. i learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something."

richard feynman (1918 - 1988)

UCLARN · Jul 20, 2004

I would think that the nurse in your example exercised bad judgement versus having no common sense. Don't you think... silly...

Well obviously you have the knowledge or you wouldn't have graduated nursing school..............
What that statement means, is that when your out there on the floor or in any given situation, YES you have to have knowledge, but if you lack common sense to go along with your knowledge then what good does your knowledge do you?
I was reading a post by Hello Nurse, the one that said she totally disagreed with my statement, on another thread, something about one of your worst experiences as a nurse, she was an LPN at the time, and the RN was sleeping when the pt needed pain meds, then the RN went out to smoke first before giving the pain meds...........Sure the nurse had the knowledge to know that Prioritizing, a pt comes before a nap or a smoke break at work, and I bet she had the knowledge to even know how to pass that med, or assess that patient, but where is her common sense in this situation?
NO.....I sure didn't mean that you only learn 10% knowledge, that is silly.............