ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN

Kris10lnC · May 6, 2001

The ANA is discriminating against LPNs and LVNs. American Nurses Association. No mention there abour REGISTERED? nope . To me that means ALL nurses. They should be forced to allow our membership or change their name to American REGISTERED Nurses Associaton.

Any takers?

RNPD · May 6, 2001

Kris-I agree with you. LPNs should be included. But believe me, the ANA isn't too happy about including me either, because although I am an RN, I am an ADN. The ANA is really an elite group and is much more interested in the nurse executive and in the elevation of the RN beyond the bedside. This is sad, but true, and probably why less than 10% of nurses in this country belong to the ANA. Those that do who aren't members by virtue of their SNA as their bargaining unit, are probably nurse executives. But I think the ANA is trying to become an organization for the bedside nurse, and for this reason I am willing to give them a chance, and would probably remain a member even if I was no longer represented by my SNA as my collective bargaining agent.

RNPD · May 6, 2001

Kris-I agree with you. LPNs should be included. But believe me, the ANA isn't too happy about including me either, because although I am an RN, I am an ADN. The ANA is really an elite group and is much more interested in the nurse executive and in the elevation of the RN beyond the bedside. This is sad, but true, and probably why less than 10% of nurses in this country belong to the ANA. Those that do who aren't members by virtue of their SNA as their bargaining unit, are probably nurse executives. But I think the ANA is trying to become an organization for the bedside nurse, and for this reason I am willing to give them a chance, and would probably remain a member even if I was no longer represented by my SNA as my collective bargaining agent.

rncountry · May 6, 2001

The fact that the ANA does not include LPN/LVNs is one of the reasons that I do not belong to the ANA. In my state at least the majority that do belong to the ANA do so because they are part of the bargaining unit with the SNA. At one time I was a member of the Michigan Nurse Association through the bargaining unit that was in the hospital, however after I left that place of employment I did not keep my membership up. Major reason at that time was cost. Newly divorced with two small children I could ill afford any extra expense. At this time in my life finances are not a real problem, but I still do not choose to join the ANA. I have listened to the arguments made my both pro and con ANA people, but to me it comes down to a few very basic things.

1. The ANA does not look at me as a professional because I do not hold a BSN. I am an ADN nurse. I have no desire to get a BSN. I do not see that it would enhance my bedside abilities, and choose to spend money on courses and such that will either enhance my bedside practice or my knowledge in things that interest me.

2. The ANA has made it clear that diploma nurses are also not "professionals" yet often the older more experienced nurses that have much to teach younger nurses are diploma prepared. By more or less declaring diploma programs as inappropriate to me the ANA has successfully degraded older nurses that paved the way for all of us. While diploma programs used nurses that came out of them as unpaid labor, it should not tar the nurses that graduated from them as unprofessional. That was a system problem, not a nurse problem. Instead of celebrating all that the diploma nurses have to offer to the rest of us, the ANA succeeded in making those nurses feel defensive about their abilities, and have perpetuated the infighting that seems inherent in the career field.

3. The unwillingness to welcome LPN/LVNs into the association effectively degrades the concept of all working as a team. Instead of being able to put together a model of what nursing should and could be in regards to team working, playing on the strengths of each team member, the model is a game of who is a better nurse based solely on the initials behind ones name. By declaring itself the American Nurse Association, but not including LPN/LVNs, they have effectively made that role invisible. Leaving the LPN/LVNs in a gray zone that gives no voice to them at all. In a time of bedside nursing shortage that promises to only get worse to me that is inane in the extreme. It makes much more sense to me to gather the "flock" and become a force we all know we could be.

4. While it is easy to say the ANA would be that force if we joined it, I say that if the ANA promoted all nurses as worthy of their time and attention than they would have nurses joining. If they had not set themselves up to be a group that believes that only BSN prepared nurses are worthy to be "professional" nurses than it is plausible to think that they would have many members. I also believe that if through the years the ANA had focused its energy on the bedside nurse and the needs of the bedside nurse than they would have a membership that would be a force to be reckoned with. Instead they have focused on advance practice nurses, and been very willing to compromise with the AHA, while managed care has taken over the health care system. While the bean counters took health care into only a business leaving out human needs and basic care to those needs who was speaking out against it? While the typical bedside nurse could see the writing on the wall the ANA did not, and blithly continued on the path of dividing nurses against one another based on the educational level. Why should we expect employers to have any kind of regard for experience of nurses who work at the bedside when the association that states they speak for the American nurse does not?

5. Nurses all over this country right now are starting out with wages that are the same starting pay I started out with 10 years ago. The starting pay that I had at a little bitty 60 bed hospital in rural northern Michigan. Their are large metro teaching hospitals that are starting nurses out at pay that is only a few cents different from mine all those years ago. Why is the ANA not addressing this. I have been to their website and do not see this addressed anywhere. Yes, wildtime, if you read this, pay is an issue. For any association to think it is right and proper for a nurse, particularly in southern states, to have to go thousands of dollars into debt to get a 4 year degree so they are a "professional" nurse, to come out and make $13 to $14 an hour to start is absolutely ridiculous. I know the argument. If we were all BSN nurses than we could command the wages. I say horse pockey to that. Because what the nurse does at the bedside is the same regardless of the degree and pay should be based on what the job responsiblities are regardless of the degree that got you there. It is a well established fact that there are many other professions out there that make much better money. Professions such as electicians come to mind. And they are labeled a profession despite not having to go to college for 4 years to be considered a profession. If anyone looks up profession in Websters dictionary you will note that nursing certainly falls under that defination. It is only those that feel a need to redefine what a profession is for their own advantage that will not see nursing for what it is.

When and if the ANA decides that they truly want to be the voice for ALL nurses, and will tackle the issues of the bedside nurse with action, not words, than I will happily join with them. I see some movement in that area, but much has to be done for me to want to be a part of it at this time. And while I say this, I will also note that while there is much to admire in the California Nurse Association, they also do not and will not represent LPN/LVNs. Maybe someday either the ANA or the CNA will wake up and realize there are a whole group of NURSES that deserve and need to be represented as well.

rncountry · May 6, 2001

The fact that the ANA does not include LPN/LVNs is one of the reasons that I do not belong to the ANA. In my state at least the majority that do belong to the ANA do so because they are part of the bargaining unit with the SNA. At one time I was a member of the Michigan Nurse Association through the bargaining unit that was in the hospital, however after I left that place of employment I did not keep my membership up. Major reason at that time was cost. Newly divorced with two small children I could ill afford any extra expense. At this time in my life finances are not a real problem, but I still do not choose to join the ANA. I have listened to the arguments made my both pro and con ANA people, but to me it comes down to a few very basic things.

1. The ANA does not look at me as a professional because I do not hold a BSN. I am an ADN nurse. I have no desire to get a BSN. I do not see that it would enhance my bedside abilities, and choose to spend money on courses and such that will either enhance my bedside practice or my knowledge in things that interest me.

2. The ANA has made it clear that diploma nurses are also not "professionals" yet often the older more experienced nurses that have much to teach younger nurses are diploma prepared. By more or less declaring diploma programs as inappropriate to me the ANA has successfully degraded older nurses that paved the way for all of us. While diploma programs used nurses that came out of them as unpaid labor, it should not tar the nurses that graduated from them as unprofessional. That was a system problem, not a nurse problem. Instead of celebrating all that the diploma nurses have to offer to the rest of us, the ANA succeeded in making those nurses feel defensive about their abilities, and have perpetuated the infighting that seems inherent in the career field.

3. The unwillingness to welcome LPN/LVNs into the association effectively degrades the concept of all working as a team. Instead of being able to put together a model of what nursing should and could be in regards to team working, playing on the strengths of each team member, the model is a game of who is a better nurse based solely on the initials behind ones name. By declaring itself the American Nurse Association, but not including LPN/LVNs, they have effectively made that role invisible. Leaving the LPN/LVNs in a gray zone that gives no voice to them at all. In a time of bedside nursing shortage that promises to only get worse to me that is inane in the extreme. It makes much more sense to me to gather the "flock" and become a force we all know we could be.

4. While it is easy to say the ANA would be that force if we joined it, I say that if the ANA promoted all nurses as worthy of their time and attention than they would have nurses joining. If they had not set themselves up to be a group that believes that only BSN prepared nurses are worthy to be "professional" nurses than it is plausible to think that they would have many members. I also believe that if through the years the ANA had focused its energy on the bedside nurse and the needs of the bedside nurse than they would have a membership that would be a force to be reckoned with. Instead they have focused on advance practice nurses, and been very willing to compromise with the AHA, while managed care has taken over the health care system. While the bean counters took health care into only a business leaving out human needs and basic care to those needs who was speaking out against it? While the typical bedside nurse could see the writing on the wall the ANA did not, and blithly continued on the path of dividing nurses against one another based on the educational level. Why should we expect employers to have any kind of regard for experience of nurses who work at the bedside when the association that states they speak for the American nurse does not?

5. Nurses all over this country right now are starting out with wages that are the same starting pay I started out with 10 years ago. The starting pay that I had at a little bitty 60 bed hospital in rural northern Michigan. Their are large metro teaching hospitals that are starting nurses out at pay that is only a few cents different from mine all those years ago. Why is the ANA not addressing this. I have been to their website and do not see this addressed anywhere. Yes, wildtime, if you read this, pay is an issue. For any association to think it is right and proper for a nurse, particularly in southern states, to have to go thousands of dollars into debt to get a 4 year degree so they are a "professional" nurse, to come out and make $13 to $14 an hour to start is absolutely ridiculous. I know the argument. If we were all BSN nurses than we could command the wages. I say horse pockey to that. Because what the nurse does at the bedside is the same regardless of the degree and pay should be based on what the job responsiblities are regardless of the degree that got you there. It is a well established fact that there are many other professions out there that make much better money. Professions such as electicians come to mind. And they are labeled a profession despite not having to go to college for 4 years to be considered a profession. If anyone looks up profession in Websters dictionary you will note that nursing certainly falls under that defination. It is only those that feel a need to redefine what a profession is for their own advantage that will not see nursing for what it is.

When and if the ANA decides that they truly want to be the voice for ALL nurses, and will tackle the issues of the bedside nurse with action, not words, than I will happily join with them. I see some movement in that area, but much has to be done for me to want to be a part of it at this time. And while I say this, I will also note that while there is much to admire in the California Nurse Association, they also do not and will not represent LPN/LVNs. Maybe someday either the ANA or the CNA will wake up and realize there are a whole group of NURSES that deserve and need to be represented as well.

HotSpam · May 6, 2001

Devils advocate...

While it is true that the ANA does not represent LPNs and holds BSNs in higher regard than ADNs I do not think that is a bad thing.

One of the biggest underlying efforts of the ANA is to represent the BSN as a professional nurse.

Even though the core of thier efforts does not concern the ADN or LPN a lot of their efforts trickle down to help the LPN and ADN. This includes the efforts regarding staffing.

My opinion is if you are a LPN or ADN you need to realize the ANA isn't really your most compatible advocate. That doesn't make them bad though. The ambiguity of their name shouldn't really be in question - that is like suggesting Playboy should be name Playman, or whatever.

Just let the ANA do it's job and if it doesn't fit your agenda then join another org that you feel represents you better. I mean I am a white man but I do not choose to join the KKK, ya know?

Besides, if you want to get picky... The bachelors degree has long been considered the lowest common denominator of the white collar worker. Many companies only hire individuals with a four year college education. In nursing we have a nice advantage that we can get a 2 year degree at a community college and still earn a decent living. I think we should count our blessings. If you want to feel more like a professional it might be worthwhile to attempt to get a BSN.

By the way, before I am called an elitist. I am an ADN. I realise if I desire to continue growing my resume and have security in my field I should get more credentialing and a BSN. If, when, I do, I would hope that sacrifice and dedication is rewarded.

I think it is pathetic to hear LPNs saying they should get the same recognition as RNs and ADNs should get the same recognition as BSNs. It may be difficult to go back to school for more education, but that is a different story and not the fault of the industry or those who have done it, even if it was easy for them.

Perhaps I am an elitist though. I do enjoy golf. :)

HotSpam

HotSpam · May 6, 2001