Just a vent....

IMO, give it some time and see if things get better..you may have to stick up for yourself though, seeing as your NM is not giving you much support. I'm of the school that thinks that verbal abuse should not be tolerated from surgeons, despite whatever God complex they may have.

Just my 2 cents, but many neurosurgeons are maladjusted anyway...they really have a God complex. :rolleyes:I have flat out refused to ever even give a break in a neuro room, because we've had issues with docs in that specialty not adhering to policy and giving the staff a hard time about it. I refuse to risk my license over a docs ego.

imo, give it some time and see if things get better..you may have to stick up for yourself though, seeing as your nm is not giving you much support. i'm of the school that thinks that verbal abuse should not be tolerated from surgeons, despite whatever god complex they may have.

just my 2 cents, but many neurosurgeons are maladjusted anyway...they really have a god complex. :rolleyes:i have flat out refused to ever even give a break in a neuro room, because we've had issues with docs in that specialty not adhering to policy and giving the staff a hard time about it. i refuse to risk my license over a docs ego.

i wondered about the neuro guys - seems they have a particularly edgy case of "i'm god and you're just...." whatever it is you are. when i was on clinicals in cst school, i was doing my neuro rotation, and this neuro doc, who had just left a group and went out on his own, came in the room and started throwing a screaming hissy fit tantrum because he couldn't find his loupes! fortunately, i was all set up, my preceptor was right by me, and my patient was asleep! my preceptor grabbed my hand and we went back into a neutral corner to wait out the storm. i was amazed, amused, and horrified all at the same time at this man's lack of self-control and professionalism.....

we had or assistants (like orderlies i guess) who helped with room turnovers and fetching equipment and such, and one of them was in the room. he left to go find the surgeon's loupes, and came back in about a minute carrying them. they were right where they were supposed to be - doctor hissyfit just didn't see them. he calmed down a little bit, but he was still a big pain to work with. fortunately it wasn't my first crainey, and i had the instrumentation down pat, so he didn't have anything to say to me. but i watched him berate other staff members for trivial issues, and thanked my lucky stars i was not staying on as an employee to deal with him in the future.

made me wonder too - if he left that group on his own? hmmmmmmm

You should be really proud of what you have accomplished as a new grad. Not too many new grads can circulate and/or scrub neuro.

I am also a new grad who is doing neuro. But I had 4 years of experience as a CST. I just had a terrible day on Friday. Of all people, I got yelled at by one of the nicest anesthesiologist in the OR. She just had it with all the people and equipment in the room. At the end of the case, I brought in the bed and she started screaming. It was so loud that I found myself shaking. Yes, that was in front of everyone in the room. It was a horrible experience. But I can't take it personally. We even talked immediately afterward how the bed was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

The point here is this - it really depends on the situation and you have to evaluate one at a time. If there's a pattern of abuse, you should definitely speak up. If nothing is done about it, you should get out of the service or the facility. There are plenty of jobs for good OR nurses.

I too believe that this sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable and I get so frustrated with managements failure to support nurses (especially new ones) when confronted with an out of control surgeon.

You really need to stick up for yourself in the OR, no one will do it for you. If a surgeon hollers at you again i suggest you stand your ground and let them know it's not on. You right when you say the job is stressful enough without other people making it worse.

I feel really let down when I see the older experienced nurses just put up with the abuse and watch as the new ones are humiliated. No wonder surgeons seem to think it's ok to behave so disgracefully when nurses don't stick by each other. The attitude that 'he's always like this' or 'that's just what she is like' is nothing but an excuse management use to avoid dealing with the problem.

I think it's ultimately why Nurses don't go into this field. Insecure Surgeons who think that if they're chosen few aren't in the room the have the right to behave badly. Wanna know why? Because certain peers and mentors teach them if they want to get what they want they have to Yell and Scream (I know because one of our graduating fellows told me exactly that.

Here's another one. They don't want to take any responsibilty to learn the equipment they use. "Get me someone in here who knows what they're doing". I say Get me a surgeon who knows what they're doing.

Verbal abuse is a crime. If your facility doesn't treat it this way Leave!

No matter how close I am to a Surgeon or how much I like them I write up verbal abuse every single time and send them to our Clinical Practice people. For me this produces results.

OK, you are right, the behavior is inappropriate. Now back to reality. As an OR nurse you need to develop a thick skin. It is rarely personal & the outbursts never occur in front of anyone who matters to the problem child. They are usually reacting to a situation and have never learned appropriate behavior.

That said, if it does become personal, document, document, document. Don't let it go at the OR manager level. Hospital administration does not want to have a "hostile work enviornment" because they will lose if anyone proves they knew about a problem and ignored it. A spine surgeon, who brings tons of cases, was recently disciplined for his treatment of the preop holding nurse. She was documenting his refusal to mark his patients and he went ballistic. He was suspended from the hospital for 3 months:yeah: and had to attend anger mgmt.

I've been in the OR for almost a year now and am also a new grad. I've been scrubbing in my new service for a month or so now as well and am coming along pretty well. My frustration at this point is dealing with certain surgeons who still act as they don't like working with me, are rude, impatient, etc. I'm quick at flipping rooms, pretty good at keeping up with the pace with backs, cervicals, aneurysms and cranes. Some mumble and I gawd forbid I ask "what was that?" and they hollar at me.

I've been told it's just b/c they don't know me and that it will change once they get used to me. How does that help at all and why is it ok?? I've never had a job where verbal abuse was tolerated! This one surgeon F bombed our nurse manager and he just took it! I asked him after the incident, and he said "well, that's just how he is". That tells me I won't be backed up in any situation. It's stressful enough learning on the job to scrub some of these cases, I don't think it's right that ppl treat new ppl that way. I don't care if he's warm and fuzzy with me a year from now, I am still apprehensive with ppl like that. Little learning occurs in OR's like that too, your just stuck in survival mode! I'm considering if I want to do this for the long haul. My home life is stressful enough!

I understand what you're going thru. I've been told the same thing "b/c they don't know me and have to get used to me." I've been in the OR for 2 years and there are still surgeons who will ignore me if i ask them a question or treat me like i'm stupid. Not too much verbal abuse going on at our facility but there is alot of sarcasm, attitude and yelling (because of a situation, not having correct equipment/broken equipment or how bad case is going) Unfortunately, you do have to have thick skin to work in the OR. Its tough and i've considered leaving many times. I like surgery but i am not too happy when i know i have to work with a rude, impatient or mean surgeon and like you i am also considering if i want to do this for the long haul. Come here to vent anytime! I've been away for a while but i'll be droppin in more regularly now.