Job listing - Please review and comment

core0 · May 28, 2008

i'm just now getting used to what is being offered for nps and came across this job offer with specifics (as opposed to just a job description).
please review it and let me know if this is a "complete package" or if there's anything missing. also, are the benefits they offer pretty much what can be expected in all np jobs? any comments are welcomed.
my biggest fear with job hunting is i'll know very little about the job going into the interview and that's when they'll go over all the extras. i hate being unprepared to negotiate.
also, are these benefits good for nps? can they be negotiated for better options? in all honesty, the pay is a lot higher than i expected for my area, which makes me wonder why (but doesn't keep me from looking into it - heh).
thank you!
health insurance:
group health plan with bcbs of georgia
employer pays 95% of premium for the base plan for the employee only. dependent/family coverage available at the employee's expense. all deductions are on a pre-tax basis. coverage is effective on the first of the month following 90 day probationary period.

dental insurance:
group dental plan with humana
employer pays 100% of the premium for the employee. dependent/family coverage available at the employee's expense. all deductions are on a pre-tax basis. coverage is effective on the first of the month following 90 day probationary period.

401k:
funded by the employee with pre-tax dollars. company will match 4% of contribution after 1 year of service. employee will be vested after 5 years of continuous employment.

cme:
$1500.00 cme allowance per year

salary: $91k (includes call)
vacation:
eligible for 3 weeks of vacation for the first two years of employment, 4 weeks for the next three years and 5 weeks after 5 years of service.

first the issue on benefits. the way that federal law works, basic benefits such as 401k and insurance have to be the same for everyone in the company. the docs for example can't pay for 100% of their insurance but 50% of the employees. not much room to negotiate here.

cme is not really a benefit per se but part of the employment contract. $1500 is pretty much par for the course especially in georgia. unfortunately it doesn't go as far these days. also i don't see an allowance for cme days. $1500 and 5-6 days seems to be par for the course.

one concern that i would have is the exclusion period for insurance. you could be without insurance for as long as four months which means you have to cobra your current insurance. you have to take that expense into account and could ask for that as a signing bonus. the 401k is quite good for georgia.

i too would be suspicious of the salary, especially for a new grad.

good luck

david carpenter, pa-c

yellow finch, BSN, RN · May 28, 2008

So do you think that the health insurance could be negotiated to be immediate coverage and ask for CME days?

One last question... what does "includes call" mean?

core0 · May 28, 2008

So do you think that the health insurance could be negotiated to be immediate coverage and ask for CME days?
One last question... what does "includes call" mean?

I would definitely ask for CME days. As for the ability to negotiate for immediate coverage, that depends on their contract. I am guessing they have a cheaper contract that has the coverage clause in it. Another way to approach it is to figure out what your cost to COBRA your current coverage is and ask for that as a signing bonus. If you continue to maintain insurance coverage they cannot deny a pre-existing condition. The reason that these type of insurances are cheaper is that they know that many people will not COBRA their insurance so they can deny pre-existing conditions.

Ahh the nuances of call. First of all call is the responsibility to respond to the demands of the job outside of your scheduled hours. There are many types of call. There is home call where you have to take calls that come into the practice after hours. For example if a patient has a fever after hours they might call asking what to do. Or if they are like my patients they call at 3AM on Sunday morning telling me they are out of Oxycodone:confused:. There can also be inpatient call where you have to take calls from the nursing staff at the hospital on your patients. A subset of this requires you to go in when a patient needs a procedure or needs to be admitted. There is also first call and second call. First call means all the calls go to you first and then you route any that need to be handled to the MD to them. Second call means that you only get the call when the MD is occupied or they refer the call to you.

You really didn't ask the correct question, which is what is call worth. To me it depends on how bothersome the call is. If you are taking call one night per month and the average call volume is less than one call per night then it really isn't worth much. If you are taking call once per week and getting called 2-3x per hour then its really like 2 shifts at work and you should get compensated appropriately. If you have to come in frequently, thats different than call where you can take care of it by phone. Call that restricts you to a geographic area would be more burdensome than call that doesn't restrict you. As you can see the possibilities are immense.

In my current job I am scheduled three days per week. However, I take 60 hours of call a week. This includes both OR coverage and first call. Essentially the University values this the same as 16 hours of work. Pretty reasonable now given how busy we are. It may be unreasonable if we get busier.

Hope this helps.

David Carpenter, PA-C

yellow finch, BSN, RN · May 28, 2008

So "includes call" means you don't get paid extra to be on call? I guess that's how I'm interpreting it. Seeing how this is a pain clinic I'm thinking it will mean a lot of calls per hour since the docs tend to stay away from hospital rounds since they don't pay as well as the office visits and procedures.

core0 · May 28, 2008

So "includes call" means you don't get paid extra to be on call? I guess that's how I'm interpreting it. Seeing how this is a pain clinic I'm thinking it will mean a lot of calls per hour since the docs tend to stay away from hospital rounds since they don't pay as well as the office visits and procedures.

Usually includes call means that call compensation is included in the salary. Yeah pain clinic is a lot of after hours calls, especially if they are doing a lot of procedures.

This is my absolute favorite post from SDN:

"Imagine a dark street corner in some inner-city of America. Imagine a man in a hooded sweatshirt sitting on a bench there, and in his pockets he has little baggies of "merchandise" to sell. People who want his "merchandise" know where to meet him, and they usually go there in the wee hours of the morning, typically around 2:00AM. That man is a drug dealer.

Now, change the setting to a clean, white-washed office, and a man sitting there in a long white coat at his desk. His customers, call them "patients", set up times to meet with him at certain points in the day, call them "appointments". They want to be "treated", which means giving them pieces of paper which can be taken to another location and exchanged for orange containers filled with "merchandise". That man is a pain fellowship trained anesthesiologist.

Basically, they're the same person. And they're both paid very well for their services. "

Actually pain does very little non-procedural chronic pain these days. It pays very well because the docs can make a lot of money injecting things while you handle everything else. You have to be somewhat careful as some of these practices are described above. For me it would be the limiting aspect of the medicine.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Trauma Columnist · May 29, 2008

My position has "call" too. It involves one weekend per month going to two hospitals 55 miles from my home and seeing all our patients that are admitted. It is from 7 am to 7pm. I also take phone calls from 11 dialysis units during this time. For my practice it is worth $6000/year or $500 per weekend. Now, I usually get done by 2 pm and then I am free to go, so though I do have to do telephone call the last 5 hours, I'm not too inconvenienced.

DaisyRN, ACNP · May 29, 2008

hey finch... on a side note:

i posted this publicly so others could comment and clarify any misconceptions i may have...

are you sure that pain management is where you want to be right out of school? i considered it, too... but personally, after being in the er for several years and seeing the rx abuse, i don't think i could do it. i would just worry about being a new np with new rx coverage and being taken advantage of... thus in trouble. it just seems like a lot of risk. i was reading somewhere (maybe here?) that some places do drug testing periodically on patients to monitor their rx use (make sure they're only taking what they're suppose to be taking) and create pain contracts where the patients are only getting rx from one provider. yes... it was here! *lol* trauma... i think said something about this... :rolleyes:

a former classmate was going to take a pain management job starting at $110k... well the more he looked into it, the more he realized that it was going to be a huge hassle and for some of the reasons i mentioned, he decided it was not worth it.

and i'm not trying to talk you out of it or anything of the like... if that's where your heart is, by all means... go for it. i just wanted to mention some things in case you hadn't thought about them yet.

best wishes to you!

yellow finch, BSN, RN · May 30, 2008

No, pain isn't my preference. I just posted that job listing because it was the first one with any specific details on compensation that I've come across in my area. Job listings here typically tell you about the group offering the position without any mentions about the salary or benefits.

This listing was simply my way of getting to know about what to expect when I start looking for jobs. Otherwise, I feel like I'll be walking into interviews blindly.

Thank you all for your comments!

DaisyRN, ACNP · May 31, 2008

ahh!! okay... i gotcha... good thinking.