Is there REALLY a nursing shortage?

mvanz9999, RN · Dec 7, 2006

Have you considered that the hospitals/nursing homes want foreign nurses because they will work cheap and wont make waves?

OH, you beat me to it. Yes, hospitals LIKE foreign nurses because they will work horrendous hours for pathetic pay. The nurses still do better, in most cases, than they would in their own country.

jjjoy, LPN · Dec 7, 2006

I agree with PACNWNURSING about the concept of nurse residencies. There is so much to know as a new nurse, yet if you're offered 3 months of preceptorship it's considered a generous offer... and you might even have to sign a long term contract to get that paid preceptorship. A new nurse is seriously expected to step in with full-load patient responsibilities within just a few months (or much less). Talk about asking for trouble! As was pointed out, in many other professions, the newbies don't start out with the same responsibilities and job roles as those with more experience.

Some kind of residency program could be a more formal transition between new grad and full-fledged practicing nurse, at least in acute care settings. Perhaps nurse residents only take half patient loads during their residency so they can get more experience with nursing skills and judgements before also having to juggle crazy time management needs. When the resident gets comfortable with the half patient load, then they'll have time to help other nurses on the floor and to seek out learning opportunities.

The resident nurses could get paid substantially less than full time staff. After all, it would need to be cost-effective for a hospital to run such a program. Students, though, would know that a residency period would be required before they'd be eligible for a full-time position and could plan accordingly.

Such residency programs could also facilitate experienced nurses who want to test out a completely different field of nursing. They could perhaps take a shorter residency. It would be a pay cut but on the bright side they would be paid to learn the new skills instead of having to pay for that education.

Perhaps those nurses who just can't manage a full-load could continue to work at lower pay scale with a lighter patient load. I know the problem with different numbers of patients is that it takes a good manager to assign patients fairly and safely among the varied abilities of the staff. And the problem with any such program is that it costs money to make it run well and that's the main problem to begin with, right?

Still, I know I'd be willing to get lower pay as a nurse if I had fewer patients to be responsible for. I still probably wouldn't stay in flooring for life, but at least a few years. As it is, I lasted a few months. They could've doubled my wage and I'd still have left. I'm not going to live in fear for a year or two because my nursing skills aren't honed yet but I'm still fully responsible for a full patient load.

amoe1219 · Dec 7, 2006

well i was considering nursing...but now i am scared to. is it really all that horrible? because i left teaching for much of the same reasons and would now like to get my lpn and possibly work in a private office or a school (especially a school). most of these posts seem to be from rn's in hospitals? am i correct in guessing that? would i be dumb to pursue this field?

mvanz9999, RN · Dec 7, 2006

well i was considering nursing...but now i am scared to. is it really all that horrible? because i left teaching for much of the same reasons and would now like to get my lpn and possibly work in a private office or a school (especially a school). most of these posts seem to be from rn's in hospitals? am i correct in guessing that? would i be dumb to pursue this field?

Hi.

I had the same thoughts and concerns. However, in many of my posts of this type, the senior members reminded me that often they come here to unload.

I also think that there are as many opinions as people. I'm still trying to get the facts straight, but I'm not going to let the whining force me out.

I could sit here and give you pages and pages of complaints about the I/T field - tell you so many horror stories that you'd run screaming from the room. That certainly doesn't mean no one should enter the field. There are many happy I/T workers. I'm just not one of them.

I think exactly the same thing could be said of teaching. Or any other field, really. If it's not a good fit for YOU, of course you won't be happy.

savedbutterfly · Dec 7, 2006

I think that part of the problem is that we as nurses are not really viewed as professionals but as a commodity by the hospital administration we have to stand up and demand what is right than we can not expect the hospitals to do it obn their own. I just learned that there are 8 members of the Senate/House that are RNs maybe this is an area that they should look in to.

all4schwa · Dec 7, 2006

I also think what is taught in nursing school needs to be standardised. Some get Oragnic Chem, some don't . Some get a seperate Patho class, some don't.
Forget the same page. We aren't even reading from the same book!

no kidding, a big discrepancy IMO is pharm, it was a big deal where i came from, girls flunked out 6mo before graduation because of pharm. i talked to a girl last night says it isnt even a core program class and she's taking it online!!!

That would save many a new nurse who ended up hating his/her job and burned out after the first 3 months. They could move around and try out different things while gaining clinical skills and getting paid.

I did an internship program that i found to be very beneficial. I did a month on three different units (areas i expressed interest in during my interview). I learned my way around this huge hospital, met a lot of people and learned so much more than i would have learned staying on anyone of those units. Also since each of those units belongs to a different cluster within which they can be assigned to float, I got to see even more units. Amazing how under one roof things can be so different.

I did have to sign a contract saying that if i left within the first year i would have to pay back my entire salary for the time i spent in their internship.

By the time I started on the floor (the unit my last rotation was on), I only had two weeks orientation and was feeling pretty confident.

jeffrey_rn · Dec 8, 2006

It may be a bit perverse, but I think a crisis will be the best thing for nurses. If it gets bad enough, perhaps that will be the fuel that drives the motor for change. When hospitals have no more nurses to pick on, they'll have to play nice. It's kind of like the situation in Iraq. It's so bad and hopeless now, Bush and those who tell him what to do (e.g. Cheney) are now having to entertain the idea of holding talks with Syria and Iran, their sworn enemies.

Well my fellow nurses... I'm pretty sure that the hospitals (the boards), in all their greedy arrogance, hold us in similar contempt- we are their Syria's, Iran's, and North Korea's. So when it gets bad enough, then they'll HAVE to talk with us. Just like the Bush Administration has to make nice with Iran & Syria in order to make things better in Iraq.

I'm sorry to compare our profession to states of terror, but I do so from the eyes of the hospital executives. We are the terrorists that threaten their profits. THEY know that. They're just hoping we don't collectively realize that. Perhaps our "bomb" is a union. Hmmm.... or just a matter of time and critical circumstance.

I hear a code blue...

busylady61 · Dec 8, 2006

I'm with you, Jeffrey.

well i was considering nursing...but now i am scared to. is it really all that horrible? because i left teaching for much of the same reasons and would now like to get my lpn and possibly work in a private office or a school (especially a school). most of these posts seem to be from rn's in hospitals? am i correct in guessing that? would i be dumb to pursue this field?

Amoe, I am also a teacher who is planning on leaving the field after only three years. I am in the process of lining up LPN school for next year and would love to eventually work in a private office or possibly a school. I too have been reading some of these posts and started to feel a little leery.

But in my opinion, the statistics on teacher turnover speak volumes. In my district, nearly half of all new teachers quit in the first three to five years. That's significantly higher than what was posted earlier on this thread. Someone posted a statistic, something to the effect that 10-15% of licensed nurses are not working in the field.

I am still planning on going for it. Not all nursing jobs are created equal. Much in the same way that not every teacher would be happy teaching third grade to at-risk limited English students; not every nurse is cut out for any given nursing position.

I know that no job is perfect, but hey, nursing sure pays a heck of a lot more than teaching.

CrazyHands · Dec 8, 2006

Never, EVER, EVER attempt to use your education or logic to reason with corporations. Yes, it would be in their best interest to retain nurses. Do they see this? No. Never, ever, ever will they see this.
I gave up logic and big business many years ago. I can think of 100s of ways my current employer could save money. Ordering cheap, shoddy, second-hand equipment is not one of those ways. The man hours required to fix/maintain junk would be better spent on top-quality hardware.
So don't think. Logic and corporations do not mix.

Absolutely correct, business and logic do not coexist. Are employers really concerned with retention? NO. They know the costs to replace an employee, but where I work (non-medical, large corporate company), my department doesn't care that we have a high attrition rate. In fact, they joke that no one stays more than 14 months. Have they tried to fix that, not really. They will eventually get replacements to retrain. Bottomline, new employees are cheaper. Both in wages and retirement packages.

Hospitals are businesses too. I'm sure they would rather have new graduates come in, and if they leave the leave.

My take away is, nursing is not really any differnet then any other job. You will have people come and go and you make what you want out of it. Not everyone is going to be a AVP, and not everyone will succeed in nursing. But there are many other options in the corporate world for those with nursing degrees if the determination that patient care is not for you.

CrazyHands

hope3456, ASN, RN · Dec 8, 2006

The ANA states in their position statement that there is an "impending nursing shortage". According to them, most nurses are nearing retirement age at the same time that baby boomers will be requiing more health services. So I guess that means that currently there is no actual shortage of registered nurses.
It's interesting reading posts about new grads because I have noticed the schools in my area pumping them out by the hundreds, and I live in a relatively small area. I agree with the rest of you that this won't solve the problem (if there is one) because I am convinced that these newbies (myself included) won't be willing to work in the hospital environment for long before moving on the greener pastures, whether that means leaving bedside nursing or the profession altogether.
I have attempted to research the current state of the so called nursing shortage and can't seem to find any recent data. Any of you our there know of a good web site with current statistics?

You hit the 'nail on the head' .....the statistics aren't really current. Most of them come from 2000-2002. I think many nsg schools have increased their admissions since then. My local CC MORE than doubled the number of students they admit in the past 3 years.

From my experience, however, hospitals are much more eager to hire 'experienced' nurses than they are 'new grads.' I personally had a hard time getting a job as a new RN right out of school, b/c I was competing against so many other 'new grads.'

kito4149 · Dec 8, 2006

There wouldn't be a problem if they staffed appropriately, even on medsurg.
Instead, one nurse has to do the work of two people. If the staffing were adequate so that one nurse was only expected to do the work of one person, people wouldn't mind working. It all comes down to money and where they can make it, and labor is a big expense and working the nurses short is one place where they can save money.

Right on, Mulan!!!!!

Alpha_RN · Dec 8, 2006

It may be a bit perverse, but I think a crisis will be the best thing for nurses. If it gets bad enough, perhaps that will be the fuel that drives the motor for change. When hospitals have no more nurses to pick on, they'll have to play nice. It's kind of like the situation in Iraq. It's so bad and hopeless now, Bush and those who tell him what to do (e.g. Cheney) are now having to entertain the idea of holding talks with Syria and Iran, their sworn enemies.
Well my fellow nurses... I'm pretty sure that the hospitals (the boards), in all their greedy arrogance, hold us in similar contempt- we are their Syria's, Iran's, and North Korea's. So when it gets bad enough, then they'll HAVE to talk with us. Just like the Bush Administration has to make nice with Iran & Syria in order to make things better in Iraq.
I'm sorry to compare our profession to states of terror, but I do so from the eyes of the hospital executives. We are the terrorists that threaten their profits. THEY know that. They're just hoping we don't collectively realize that. Perhaps our "bomb" is a union. Hmmm.... or just a matter of time and critical circumstance.
I hear a code blue...

Dude, free speech is cool but using the 'War on Terror' comparison to the 'Nursing Shortage' and getting political diggs in at the President is tacky at best.

I'm sure a lot of the Nursing Professionals here resent being compared to Syria or Iran or North Korea.

The bottom line is that there are areas of the country are underserved by Professional Nurses.I do agree that the concept of a nationwide crisis has been cooked up in some board room somewhere.

But the comparison that Jeffrey made is stupid, grotesque and nauseating; regardless of how you feel about the war.