Is it really as good as it sounds here?

[Agnus]

I've been reading this forum this a. m. I am really impressed. You all seem so happy and up beat. I find this very encouraging. So encourging I'm wondering what it is I'm not hearing.

I'm reading because when I was a student my psy teacher was head of prison nursing in this state. She arranged for those who wanted to spend a day in a max prision. Very interesting and again up beat. Humm?

About the time I graduated a new juvenile facility was in need of an RN. I was wanting to go into peids, this would be only about 5 iminutes from home. I did not apply as I was not sure if I was ready for that right out of school with no experience.

There is a minimum security female prison close to that one and I wondered about working there before I went to nursing school.

It sounds very interesting and I have talked very briefly with nurses who have worked at some of the other prisons in the area (we seem to have a LOT) They seem to especially like the pay.

My problem is from my personal perspective correction officers and police officers seem to have a very negative view of the world and mistrust everyone. I would not want to work in an enviroment that encourages that. They seem to have an unusually high reguard for nurses BUT.

I am wondering what tole it takes working in such an enviorment. When I spent my day as a student on the psyc unit of the prison I asked how the nurses and officers coped and what they did to releve stress and I really got very filp answers. Not that they meant to be disrespectful but I really got no insight as to how they kept good mental health for themselves.

This day at the prison was set up as a way to recruit nurses and there was no secret made about it. So I wonder what we were not being told or shown.

Oh yea, when I was a CNA working for agency I did a night shift in a california jail it was a with a woman who was confined to a hospital bed because of her extensive injuries from attempted ssuicide. It was a good experience. BUT the prison nurses aid I relieved was (unlike everyone else) in that he told me to essentially watch my back because if anything happened to the prisoner they they would hang it on me and no one would back me up. He had it that even if I went to eat or go to the rest room I would be in trouble if something happened. Yet I was told I could take my breaks. Both she and I were under constant view of the guards. This poor worman was in no shape to try to kill her self with all the casts she had on. I don't know maby it was because he was an aide and only paid about $6 that caused him to be like this. But he was talking like I personally would be facing a big law suite.

[NancyRN]

After reading these rave reviews of Correctional Nusing, I interviewed for a position in a Correctional Facility and was given a tour of the prison.

I found the nursing staff to be cold and rude to the inmates. Privacy was not respected. Compassion was nonexistent. The behavior of the nurses there went against every tenet of Nursing, IMHO.

I asked that my application not be processed.

[sjoe]

"I found the nursing staff to be cold and rude to the inmates. Privacy was not respected. Compassion was nonexistent. "

And then, on the other hand, corrections nursing is not for everyone. (I particularly liked the bit about "privacy is not respected." Ha. Like it would be smart to be in a "private" space with inmates?)

[NancyRN]

"The bit" is just my personal opinion. Good to be able to express it here without being flamed.

I found it offensive for the RN to screech "ANYONE HERE GOT ANY MEDICAL PROBLEMS?" in front of all onlookers. An inmate with a medical problem was expected to announce it and expose body parts in a hallway filled with people. That's a lack of privacy and it's against my Nurse Practice Act.

I'm not so stupid as to expect a nurse to lock herself up with an inmate. Sheesh.

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

...but you had no problem making a snap judgment about the professionalism and attitudes of the staff based upon a tour. I grant you, examinations should not be conducted out in the open (we have trauma rooms and exam rooms for such things).

Because of the nature of the environment, there cannot be much privacy in a prison. It is a huge security risk. Openly-displayed compassion in a prison is an open invitation to manipulation. It may seem to be "against every tenet of nursing" to you, but sometimes doing the best thing in the patient's interest means saying "no".

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, correctional nursing in many respects requires going against the grain of a lot of things we are taught in school and on the job. I would not contest for a minute that there are employees who are jaded and do not conduct themselves as they should. However, walk a mile in the other man's shoes before condemning him.

[sjoe]

"That's a lack of privacy and it's against my Nurse Practice Act."

So you wrote your own NPA? Good for you. But spend 30 minutes in any ER or public health clinic, or in a multi-bed hospital ward, etc. and you will quickly learn how much this "privacy" you advocate exists in real life.

"Because of the nature of the environment, there cannot be much privacy in a prison. It is a huge security risk. Openly-displayed compassion in a prison is an open invitation to manipulation. It may seem to be "against every tenet of nursing" to you, but sometimes doing the best thing in the patient's interest means saying "no". "

Exactly right as usual, Orca. Sentiment, soft-heartedness, and wishful thinking have very limited utility in corrections (as well as in MANY other nursing environments where often the intentional infliction of pain, setting of stern limits, and "drill-instructor-type" communication are necessary).

"I would not contest for a minute that there are employees who are jaded and do not conduct themselves as they should."

Maybe even in an ER, ICU, surgery, rehab, or Med-surg unit? Naw, we know all those people are saints, while the sinners and mean people all work in corrections.

[Agnus]

Orca, and sjoe,

You seem to be taking NancyRN's remarks about her observations in one prison on one tour personally. Her remarks did not sound like an attack to me. It seems they cut too close to the quick for you? You then both began to attack.

The remaks were not about you or your facility. Your response to this make me wonder if one can work in this enviorment and still maintain objectivity.

By the way I wonder why no one has attempted to address my latest question about whether I'd be eaten up or become too jaded. I hope the answer is not that I will become defensive and stike out everytime someone makes an honest observation or voice an honest oponion based on that observation. :stone

I've read both your profiles after writing this. Very impressive. However.....? I am disappointed that with your credentials and field of expertise that this is what you offer? Please, say it aint so; instead that you just got off a particulary trying shift when you wrote your responses to NancyRN, and you were about to commit harriecarrie (spell) and she just was in the line of fire.

[psychonurse]

Okay correctional nursing isn't for all.....and unfortunately we have some bad seeds here just like in all other factors of nursing. In our state we are all accredited with the NCCHC which is like JAHO for hospitals and we have certain rules that we can not do...patient's rights and dignity are still supposed to be observed, we attempt to keep inmates diagnosis out of the general ears of everyone else but sometimes the inmates tell everyone what thier diagnosis is.

I have no trouble putting my hand on a patients back or head in comfort and to sit with them when they are in pain, we can still be caring people for this clientele but we can't step over the line and you need to know what that line is. You must let inmates know that you care for them but only to a point. It is a very fine line to walk but you can do it cause I have for 13 years. There are days that I go home and feel very good at what I did and if I make a difference in a persons life than I am better that I was there.

If you go to a system where the facilities are NCCHC accredidited I think you will see a difference in the way that the facility is run. We are not all "Nurse Rachet" but you do have to hold the line.:)

[sjoe]

NurseWeasel writes: "Games Criminals Play: How You Can Profit by Knowing Them

by Bud Allen & Diana Bosta"

Thanks a lot for this suggestion. It took me quite a while to find this book, wound up using Inter Library Loan, but it was worth it. Wish I had read it when I first started working corrections, and have subsequently suggested that its main ideas be incorporated into yearly staff training. Excellent stuff to know for anyone thinking about working in corrections, even as a volunteer.

Basically the book describes the overall pattern of behaviors commonly used by inmates to manipulate staff. From initial, "harmless" behaviors and how they progress to more serious problems for all concerned IF the employee does not handle it appropriately from the very beginning. (It certainly showed why our facility had so much successful staff-splitting and peer-directed staff hostility, as well as the reasons behind some of the very negative threads and posts on this very forum.)

[Agnus]

Originally posted by sjoe

NurseWeasel writes: "Games Criminals Play: How You Can Profit by Knowing Them

by Bud Allen & Diana Bosta"

It certainly showed why our facility had so much successful staff-splitting and peer-directed staff hostility, as well as the reasons behind some of the very negative threads and posts on this very forum.)

Hmm. Sounds like a good book for nurses in any setting. Thanks.