Is it ok to draw lab from a PIVC?

Nurses General Nursing

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My floor is starting to have the ICU nurses draw their own labs. Usually the nurse would have the phlebotomists from the lab come up to do a venipunture, unless the patient had some sort of central line in place, then the nurse will do the draw. So now that we have to draw our own lab, most of the nurses are drawing from peripheral IV catheter (PIVC). I always thought that it was ok to draw from PIVC only upon the initial insertion of the catheter, and then you have to do venipunture thereafter. On a previous post, it was mentioned that “the blood that is near the IV is not good for sampling anymore because it doesn't flow/mix at the same rate” is that the evidence based answer? So my questions are:

1. What is the common nursing practice out there?

2. If it is common or uncommon to draw from PIVC: what is the rationale?

Specializes in Peds Hem, Onc, Med/Surg.

Drawing labs from PIV is a big no no. Not only is it not designed to function that way, but the sample is not a good one.

And I remember my instructor saying something about an increased risk of infection. Vaguely.

Blondy206,

You totally misunderstood my point. When I said that pt who have daily blood draw need central line, I am refering to pt who have poor vein access and therefore NOT candidate for phlebotomy. I did not say that if any pt have daily blood draw that you should advocate for a central line placement on ALL of them.

If the pt has no, none, ZERO accessible vein then why subject that pt to endure needle after needle sticks just to say.. I'm sorry I didn't get your blood and have to repeat the same tortous experience. Your more likely going to put that pt at risk for cellulitis than line infection.

If that same pt have daily blood draw i.e. H/H, CMP, PT/PTT/INR, I anticipate blood product administration, electrolyte replacement, Anticoag theraphy, Maintenance IVF ,etc....... why Not stablish a mutlipurpose vascular access early before your pt start to crash.

I'm interested in some of the responses here.

Firstly, a PICC is a type of central access- Peripherally Inserted Central Catheter. This is not something an RN can generally place independently. It is certainly not a new form of IV catheter that simply needs to be ordered.

Another poster said that a patient needing daily blood draws should get a central line. Don't most hospitalized patients get blood drawn at least once a day? Putting central lines in everyone is poor practice and not indicated.

Let me ask you a question. If your 75yo pt admitted for hematochezia on chronic steroid use for COPD has a h/h q8hrs ordered. He has no visible and or palpable vein for pperipheral blood draw, BUT he has a 18gauge needle placed in the e.d that draws wonderfully. 0500 comes time for AM Labs, 3 unsuccessful try by you and then the next staff and then the next staff still unsuccessful. Do you just STOP and wait 'till the Doc comes in to round and say... sorry doc no luck with Mr flat vein's blood draw while at the same time he's in the BSC dumping 350ml frank bloody stool ready for you to empty? OR DO YOU GET YOUR 10CC SYRINGES FLUSH THE ESTABLISHED 18G IN THE L ac, apply turniquet 3-4 cm above the insertion site and aspirate for blood return, draw waste and then collect you h/h sample and promtly send to lab?

Let me ask you a question. If your 75yo pt admitted for hematochezia on chronic steroid use for COPD has a h/h q8hrs ordered. He has no visible and or palpable vein for pperipheral blood draw, BUT he has a 18gauge needle placed in the e.d that draws wonderfully. 0500 comes time for AM Labs, 3 unsuccessful try by you and then the next staff and then the next staff still unsuccessful. Do you just STOP and wait 'till the Doc comes in to round and say... sorry doc no luck with Mr flat vein's blood draw while at the same time he's in the BSC dumping 350ml frank bloody stool ready for you to empty? OR DO YOU GET YOUR 10CC SYRINGES FLUSH THE ESTABLISHED 18G IN THE L ac, apply turniquet 3-4 cm above the insertion site and aspirate for blood return, draw waste and then collect you h/h sample and promtly send to lab?

CORRECTION: 18GAUGE catheter in the L anticubetal.

Specializes in Oncology.
Let me ask you a question. If your 75yo pt admitted for hematochezia on chronic steroid use for COPD has a h/h q8hrs ordered. He has no visible and or palpable vein for pperipheral blood draw, BUT he has a 18gauge needle placed in the e.d that draws wonderfully. 0500 comes time for AM Labs, 3 unsuccessful try by you and then the next staff and then the next staff still unsuccessful. Do you just STOP and wait 'till the Doc comes in to round and say... sorry doc no luck with Mr flat vein's blood draw while at the same time he's in the BSC dumping 350ml frank bloody stool ready for you to empty? OR DO YOU GET YOUR 10CC SYRINGES FLUSH THE ESTABLISHED 18G IN THE L ac, apply turniquet 3-4 cm above the insertion site and aspirate for blood return, draw waste and then collect you h/h sample and promtly send to lab?

I absolutely draw off peripherals given the necessity. I was saying that a PICC isn't the same as PIV and that a need for daily blood draws alone isn't an indication for a CVL. Not sure how that translated to me not thinking drawing off an 18 g on someone with no other options isn't okay.

I absolutely draw off peripherals given the necessity. I was saying that a PICC isn't the same as PIV and that a need for daily blood draws alone isn't an indication for a CVL. Not sure how that translated to me not thinking drawing off an 18 g on someone with no other options isn't okay.

The 18g cath was just an EXAMPLE added to my question to you. I know PICC and PIV are two different venous lines - you're absolutely right. But the question arise, would you continue drawing DAILY blood work from peripheral IV in these pt population (poor venous access) and risk lossing your one and ONLY site or WOULD YOU ask the MD FOR CENTRAL LINE PLACEMENT?

Blondy206,

WHY do you think many Cancer pt have a portacath?

1. Chemo tx requires a central venous line d/t its cytotoxicity.

2. DAILY blood work for inpt to monitor CBC c diff espicially post chemo tx. and outpt scheduled hematology

3. venous access, because majority of these pt population are not candidate for phlebotomy. So when they are admitted as inpt they don't need to be stock.

4. Parenteral nutrition for those who are nutritionaly compromised.

I am sure there's more.... My point is, IF THE PT IS VASCULARLY DEFICIT AND HAS AN ORDER FOR FREQUENT HEMATOLOGICAL TESTING, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO ADVICE THE ATTENDING M.D FOR CENTRAL LINE PLACEMENT. YOU AS THE NURSE SHOULD BE AN ADVOCATE TO YOUR PT WELL BEING. Majority of the time Docs are receptive to this suggestion, at least where I work MDs and RNs collaborates profesionaly. One IMPORTANT thing I want to emphasize: YOU DONT JUST ASK THE DOCS FOR CENTRAL LINES ON ALL PTs JUST BECAUSE HE HAS DAILY BLOOD WORK. YOU MUST FIRST ASSESS THE ACUITY OF THE PT, ask yourself questions: why is the pt needing daily blood work? what is his diagnosis?, what are his Vital signs, Is the pt hemodynamically stable? what is his code status? etc.

Specializes in Oncology.

I said need for daily labs alone wasn't an indication for a central line. Almost every inpatient gets daily labs. I did NOT say that central lines weren't appropriate for patients getting long term care or with poor peripheral access.

Geesh.

Look at my specialty. When do you think the last time I saw a patient without central access was? I'm a firm believer in central access. No need to get so darned defensive.

Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
I'm interested in some of the responses here.

Firstly, a PICC is a type of central access- Peripherally Inserted Central Catheter. This is not something an RN can generally place independently. It is certainly not a new form of IV catheter that simply needs to be ordered.

Another poster said that a patient needing daily blood draws should get a central line. Don't most hospitalized patients get blood drawn at least once a day? Putting central lines in everyone is poor practice and not indicated.

Where I work, if we have someone we know will be there a while and need long term iv therapy and they are a very difficult stick, we usually ask the doc to order a pic line. We draw most labs through it except for a PT/INR and blood cultures. When we draw the blood we waste a few mls first then fill the tube.

I said need for daily labs alone wasn't an indication for a central line. Almost every inpatient gets daily labs. I did NOT say that central lines weren't appropriate for patients getting long term care or with poor peripheral access.

Geesh.

Look at my specialty. When do you think the last time I saw a patient without central access was? I'm a firm believer in central access. No need to get so darned defensive.

I'm NOT being defensive, I just want you to understand my RATIONAL.THANKs

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