Interviewing for New Grad positions during the pandemic

[guest1107684]

Just came back from yet another interview for a new grad residency program. Does this sound like kaka that is wrapped in a nicely designed wrap? I had a similar experience a few weeks ago with an interview for ICU position where I was told that they are in need of nurses right now, but in a few month they may not need me in ICU, so I would be transferred to a step down unit. Orientation on ICU was 15 shifts for a new grad.

I am feeling that search for a new grad position right now really demands a great deal of personal sacrifice to deal with the mind-blowing conditions that are imposed on the job seeker. If before it was just a 2 year contract and other minor things, now if you want a job, they pretty much own you.

I was ready for a 2-3 year contract and working any shifts they saw fit, but the rest of the information was certainly not in the job description and was shared in a very indirect way. Does this even legally go along with "assign additional job responsibilities within your general skill set for capabilities"?

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"We have a modified orientation program. This modified version was implemented at the start of the pandemic. We hired April cohort at the times when everything was changing, so we couldn't support them in terms of precepting them right away. So we did not postpone or cancel that. We created a new nursing support role for them. So they start as a resource nurse on COVID unit or as nursing assistant in other units. We found that they really transitioned easily into RN preceptorship once they had this time to kind of learn culture, the work flow. They had extra time to master they nursing skills working as nursing resource and nursing assistant. Once they started to work into RN preceptorship, they really solidified their pathophys, they are able to being better at recognizing trends, patterns, and connect that data to seeing a full picture for every patient. So instead of being very task focused, which is typical of new grads, they are better critical thinkers."

"We are going to continue this model, because we saw how much more confident our new grads after that. They don't have to worry about learning the charting system or learning where all the supplies are, or learning what doctors are taking care of these patients. They already know that stuff before taking on full patient care."

"Our April cohort worked for about 3 months in that role, but we will see what October has in terms of the pandemic. It may be shorter than 3 months, but we will communicate with you."

"Do you have any questions for us?"

"As far as this goes, what is April cohort doing right now?"

They are on their preceptorship with their RN. They are doing 2 shifts a week with their preceptor, and 1 shift a week as a resource or CNA role. Because they had that extra time on the units doing patient care, some of our nurse new grad are ready to be off of orientation.

...

So 30 shifts of orientation is standard for a new grad?

Yes, but as you can see, many people get off earlier because of the time they spent in the alternate role. So we are able to pay them as an RN, even though they are not practicing independently as a RN.

You will still be considered a Clinical Nurse I. You will be able to pull meds, work with the nurses on the unit and do some of those skill, but you won't have that pressure of being the primary RN for that patient.

I was a new grad here as well, and when we started to change things up, I was like, "I wish I had this!" I would have known where everything was, who was the doctor assigned to my patients. So learning those nitty gritty details and then take full care of the patients... The difference between the April cohort and January cohort is big."

[Sour Lemon]

I don't see anything illegal. And yes, if you want a job you've got to play by their rules. As a new graduate, you have very little to bargain with. I suppose you could keep looking, or wait, and hope that things change. Maybe moving is an option if you can find something better outside of your bubble?

Five weeks of ICU orientation sounds very scary to me. I got 12 weeks in med/surg.

[guest1107684]

 

1 hour ago, Sour Lemon said:

As a new graduate, you have very little to bargain with. I suppose you could keep looking, or wait, and hope that things change.

Yes, I think you are right. I should probably come down from a cloud and face the cold and cruel reality of everyday life. Hoping that a Med-surge/Telemetry residency program would interview me for that specific position without all the other "minor" details is a bit unrealistic in today's world.

1 hour ago, Sour Lemon said:

Maybe moving is an option if you can find something better outside of your bubble?

Probably moving my frame of mind would be a bit more effective to take advantage of the opportunities that I already have around me. I am not sure that somewhere out there people are more different than here.

[JKL33]

There may be plenty of RNs who probably disagree with me on this...but...I have always thought that orientation should start out by learning the nuts and bolts of the environment that are always talked about as if they are learned in 1 or 2 days but really aren't by most people.

The site-specific processes and particularities.

In my mind being given just a little time and space in the environment without so much pressure is a good thing.

As it is now, people come onto the floor not knowing one single thing about anything related to the environment itself, and preceptors/managers start getting either pissed or disappointed if they don't know everything after some relatively short time period. "She's on week 4 already and again forgot [x, y, z little environment-specific thing]..."

Given the state of nursing school clinical education I think getting one's feet under oneself by working in these less-pressure roles is a fantastic idea.

But there is a major potential deal-breaker, and that is that you must still be afforded a proper RN orientation. And, for the most part, it must be planned to be the full amount of time that usually would have been granted.

Is some of what they are saying total BS? Of course it is. That is *always* the case and it always will be. They will always spin things to their advantage. Just don't be starry-eyed and gullible and you can probably make it work out okay.

[guest1107684]

I am just coming at it from analytical side, since in business everything is about numbers. Words paint beautiful pictures, but numbers show reality of things.

Lets say the program started in mid-April. That would make it approximately 20 weeks until this day.

20 weeks - 4 weeks of classroom = 16 weeks
16 weeks x 3 shifts per week = 48 days

48 days - 30 days preceptorship = 18 days as a resource on COVID floor or CNA on another floor

The model can be stretched out to their advantage even further.
If there are 30 days of preceptorship, then we can do something like this:

3 days as CNA or resource nurse on COVID floor initially.
2 days as CNA/resource + 1 day with preceptor for the rest of the time.
This can be repeated for 30 weeks.

At least this is the picture I got when I asked a follow up question, "What is April cohort doing right now?"

The model does sound beneficial if they are considering investing in training me and making me a valuable employee, but the numbers are a little bit off, in my opinion.

I really questioned the quality of this sort of orientation when you are spending 0 days with your preceptor initially, and then you are being balanced around getting to see your preceptor only 1 day a week, or may be 2 days, and at the end they may even cut orientation time short.

Pretty much what it comes out to is that I have no control of my orientation at all, and specifics such as the length of CNA/Resource on COVID floor are not even being discussed. According to the numbers, it could be as long as they need it to be. It can be as long as half a year, and from the response that I got, that is exactly the case.

[JKL33]

29 minutes ago, Student. said:

Pretty much what it comes out to is that I have no control of my orientation at all

You don't anyway. Even before covid. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's reality. Before covid, nicer-sounding plans may have been offered to new grads but there has never been any good way for an individual new grad to hold the employer responsible for the reasonable things one would expect upon hearing the proposed plan (such as preceptors who actually have time to precept, patient loads that allow actual teaching and learning, etc.). These sorts of things have been a crapshoot for a long time now.

You kind of either decide to take your chances here or you decide not to. And that is something that isn't new. Unfortunately.

I doubt I would ever sign a contract for this kind of opportunity, but then I don't like the situation that new grad contracts create even on a good day.

This isn't covid, this is just healthcare and nursing. ?

[guest1107684]

I have another interview coming up, and I think I need really need to change my mindset on the way things are. The interview part is not the problem for me, but the real problem ends up being the conditions of every new grad job position that I either get or that could potentially be offered.

For what it is worth, it is probably better to stay away from residency programs that on top of additional classroom work, provide orientations that are questionable. I could potentially get a similar job at a small community hospital, but without the pressure of a 2 year contract and additional classwork. On-the-unit orientation quality and length would most likely be the same, considering that conditions during the pandemic are pretty much the same everywhere.

For sometime, I thought that getting into a good residency program at a bigger hospital was in a way superior than getting a job at a smaller community hospital. Now, my mindset is slowly beginning to change.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

2 hours ago, Student. said:

I have another interview coming up, and I think I need really need to change my mindset on the way things are. The interview part is not the problem for me, but the real problem ends up being the conditions of every new grad job position that I either get or that could potentially be offered.

For what it is worth, it is probably better to stay away from residency programs that on top of additional classroom work, provide orientations that are questionable. I could potentially get a similar job at a small community hospital, but without the pressure of a 2 year contract and additional classwork. On-the-unit orientation quality and length would most likely be the same, considering that conditions during the pandemic are pretty much the same everywhere.

For sometime, I thought that getting into a good residency program at a bigger hospital was in a way superior than getting a job at a smaller community hospital. Now, my mindset is slowly beginning to change.

Some smaller hospitals orientation without a residency program are not much better. Just do your homework. Good luck