I know there has been some speculation on this board in the past about if a nurse with the bare minimum experience should (or could) go to CRNA school. Well, I just got accepted.
I graduated in July 07 with my BSN. I was in a non-health care field prior to my BSN. I immediately went to work at a large teaching hospital in a med surg ICU. I worked very hard to learn everything I could, and I feel like I am currently a very competent ICU nurse.
I have been accepted to my program of choice for fall 08, when I will have one year experience as a nurse.
Understand I am not trying to shortcut anything. I worked very hard on my school studies and my clinical experience to be well prepared. I scored very well on the GRE. I shadowed a CRNA for ~ 40 hours. I have a 3.7~3.8 GPA. I spent my own time understanding the hemodynamics of the cardiopulmonary system, the MOA/effects of different vasopressors. I work with (and understand) vents, settings, therapies.
This route is not for everybody, but I am proof that you can do it. And I feel like I am very well prepared for the program. I just want other potential candidates to know that it can be done.
#1. Don't tell me "not to be like that" and that my conduct is unbecoming only to proceed to insult me personally. You are the one who is about to bend over for the next 2.5 years, I'm done with that.
It is okay to disagree with others opinions in a respectful manner. Your not trying to do that.
:deadhorseOk kids. It's time to stop throwing stones. Gump, I think that you must be deserving if you were accepted. I think the issue that the seasoned nurses are trying to make is that they just plain have more knowledge. You cannot learn in 1 year what someone can learn in 5, 10, or 15 years. It just isn't possible (save for those slackers who didn't learn anything in 5,10, or 15 years!). That is the only point being made, not that those with
One thing I will say, having been accepted to TCU, is that I don't think they would accept ANYONE subpar into their program. There will be those who are somewhat weaker clinically or in their knowledge base, and they may have to play catch up, but their program is designed to help people do just that.
I think also maybe since bedside nursing is losing new grads SOOOOO quickly these days, the schools may also feel the need to sign CRNA students up ASAP after they get their RN or else they might leave the field completely if they expect having to put in more than a year "in the trenches"!
Being both a devils' advocate as well wondering what the thoughts are on this? What would motivate programs to want to consider those with less ICU experience? I'm not saying that more ICU experience necessarily makes for a better student. But I don't see the clear benefit in accepting students who may have only worked independently in the ICU for a few months. What's the harm in putting in another 6 months of independent RN work before applying to a CRNA program? Such experience is never a waste. It's not like requiring 5 years experience. It's just requiring that the potential has ALREADY worked independently in the ICU for some time before being accepted to a CRNA program. Is it such a big cost to the potential CRNA student that they might not apply? In the big picture, an extra year shouldn't matter that much to someone committed to being an CRNA. Any insight there?
Being both a devils' advocate as well wondering what the thoughts are on this? What would motivate programs to want to consider those with less ICU experience? I'm not saying that more ICU experience necessarily makes for a better student. But I don't see the clear benefit in accepting students who may have only worked independently in the ICU for a few months. What's the harm in putting in another 6 months of independent RN work before applying to a CRNA program? Such experience is never a waste. It's not like requiring 5 years experience. It's just requiring that the potential has ALREADY worked independently in the ICU for some time before being accepted to a CRNA program. Is it such a big cost to the potential CRNA student that they might not apply? In the big picture, an extra year shouldn't matter that much to someone committed to being an CRNA. Any insight there?
This is a good question.
My only thought is, ICU experience is only one part of the entire package. The interview committee looks at the whole candidate. After looking at all the applicants, they rank them. It is very possible for a lesser experienced nurse to rank higher overall than the more experienced nurse.
I was actually grilled on clinical questions. I was able to display alot of clinical knowledge, even though I did not have years on the job. It is possible that more experienced nurses did not have the same clincial knowledge.
Other factors such as professional demeanor, other life experience, and yes GRE/GPA come into consideration. The school cannot send the most knowledgable nurse in the world to represent them if they are an arrogant ass with no professional or social skills.
I can only say what I have heard from CRNA's that are my friends as WELL as the ones that I have worked with......But I have been told that the ICU experience is basically to learn how to critically think. What is learned in the ICU cannot be translated into what is learned in CRNA school ( to a certain extent)...they are two different animals ( per se). Most nurses have to be retrained out of ICU thinking to Nurse Anesthetist thinking. So the minimum one year experience is satisfactory. Plus (please dont beat me :nuke:) AA's don't have any ICU experience and I know quite a few that are great......so to each their own!!
And speaking from someone who has 7.5 years experience in the OR as a surgical assistant...what we do in the OR is night and day to what happens on the floors....You either know your stuff ,OR style, or you don't...... and if you don't, find the nearest exit because you are not cut out for this line of work......my:twocents:
So its true what they say- "Nurses eat their own". We all are going into this profession as novices. The experience needed according to most veteran CRNAs on this post and AANA is the ability to possess critical thinking capabilities. This OP has been beaten enough. I say we "celebrate" not "intubate" this brave nurse. We must stop playing the Clinton and Obama arguement. The arguement and discussion is beginning to sound like the doctors anesthesist position back in the days when they think nurses will not be proficient enough to administer anesthesia due to inadequate education and "experience. We need to move on and discuss how we can help glorify our new chosen profession.
I've been reading this thread for a while and just felt the need to comment....I am an RN w/a little over a year's experience in a general ICU. I applied to CRNA schools this past year w/around 10 months of experience and was accepted to one, but not to three others (one of which was the program I desperately want to attend!). This program that I would love to attend informed me that my experience was not adequate enough and I would have to move to a level one trauma facility to continue my ICU experience. I then had a 'realization'....I had no idea why I had rushed the application process in the first place when I had plenty of time to become a 'savvy' ICU RN. I will be transferring over to the level one ICU at the end of the month and will re-apply to programs for this year, feeling more confident in my practice and hopefully obtaining the CCRN. I feel that even with a year's experience I still have a TON to learn...the more prepared I am, the better! (just my own opinion after some soul searching) Good luck to all those applying out there!!
I can only say what I have heard from CRNA's that are my friends as WELL as the ones that I have worked with......But I have been told that the ICU experience is basically to learn how to critically think. What is learned in the ICU cannot be translated into what is learned in CRNA school ( to a certain extent)...they are two different animals ( per se). Most nurses have to be retrained out of ICU thinking to Nurse Anesthetist thinking. So the minimum one year experience is satisfactory.
Actually, a lot of what is learned in ICU will translate into the CRNA role. In particular....potent drips, hemodynamics, etc. will all translate. Also, having a deep understanding of the pathophys behind certain disease processes going in will provide the nurse a firm foundation on which to build their new career. Think of this as a house. You can have 2 homes that are equally beautiful from the outside...one of them has an extremely strong foundation, reinforced and extra sturdy and the other is built on a weak foundation, with construction beginning before the concrete even had a chance to become solid and strong.....which home do you think will need more maintenance for upkeep? Yes, we all start as novicesin the CRNA program, but there is a sound reason why ICU experience is required...to provide a starting FOUNDATION to build on. Someof us will have stronger foundations than others. I will say for all those applying, young and old (in ICU years)...please go into the ICU with a love for the field and take from it as much as you can. We have all known those who merely come into the unit to do the minimal amount necessary so that they can qualify to move on to CRNA. Your ICU experience should not be viewed as a necessary evil that you must endure in order to move on to the next level. If you find yourself only tolerating the unit so you can go on to bigger & better things, you probably need to rethink the whole process. I once worked with a nurse who had been in OB for years. She decided to become a CRNA & came into our unit for that purpose only. She did the bare minimum required, rarely taking heavy care patients. In fact, when she interviewed for the CRNA program she was still not even taking 2 patients independently! Obviously she did well at interview, and the school never verified if she was fully functioning as an ICU nurse. She was accepted after only being in the unit for 3 months because she would be in the ICU for a full year when school began. From that day forward her arrogance was almost intolerable. We were all going nuts, and she still wouldn't take a full patient load! We went through another 9 months of her making excuses, and when she entered CRNA school that Aug. she had only been working independently for 3 months, and was still not taking critical patients. Sitting & talking with her you found that she was very intelligent & came across as very capable, but she really had no idea what was going on at bedside. Unfortunately many more experienced nurses have been burned by others just like her who use the unit as a stepping stone rather than a place to learn & flourish. I know none of you would do this....but keep in mind that there are those that do and those people are the ones who give those who rush from entering the ICU to CRNA school a bad name.
Actually, a lot of what is learned in ICU will translate into the CRNA role. In particular....potent drips, hemodynamics, etc. will all translate. Also, having a deep understanding of the pathophys behind certain disease processes going in will provide the nurse a firm foundation on which to build their new career.
She decided to become a CRNA & came into our unit for that purpose only. She did the bare minimum required, rarely taking heavy care patients. In fact, when she interviewed for the CRNA program she was still not even taking 2 patients independently!
From that day forward her arrogance was almost intolerable.
Unfortunately many more experienced nurses have been burned by others just like her who use the unit as a stepping stone rather than a place to learn & flourish. I know none of you would do this....but keep in mind that there are those that do and those people are the ones who give those who rush from entering the ICU to CRNA school a bad name.
As to your first point, about ICU knowledge as a foundation: In anesthesia school you will find that much of what you or any other critical care nurse, no matter how experienced, thought you knew was grossly oversimplified or inaccurate.
Regarding the short-termer who used the ICU as a stepping stone: You clearly had issues with her lack of teamwork or work ethic, but the real issue in THIS forum is, did she have what she needed to succeed in anesthesia school. I kept my future plans to myself while in the ICU, precisely because of attitudes such as yours regarding the ICU as 'stepping stone'. I was also very much a team player with a strong work ethic, and none of my coworkers was worse off for having worked with me. On the flip side, I was berated and ostracized by a few queen bee nurses who were sure the ICU would come crashing down without them. They didn't like anyone new. Period. Especially the ones they couldn't intimidate and browbeat into leaving or constantly rearranging work assignments to please them. They have managed to chase away or make miserable nearly everyone who has come into the ICU in recent years, and then badmouth short-timers because they 'couldn't hack it' or 'used the ICU as a stepping stone'. I applaud anyone who sets goals, achieves them, and strives for excellence in all aspects of their life. Whether they've been in my unit for 2 years or 20. And I'm pleased to say that's the type of person in my anesthesia program.
Forrest Forrest Gump
12 Posts
It is okay to disagree with others opinions in a respectful manner. Your not trying to do that.