I witnessed something and can't do anything about it

caliotter3 · Mar 10, 2010

I am glad to see that you have followed through with the director and that there are no negative repercussions. Hopefully this will be resolved in favor of the infants.

NTexasRN · Mar 10, 2010

By law you are required to report such behavior immediately or face charges that are equal to the offending person. There is no reason that a nurse should hold a newborn over a sink to wash anything and that such a person would be doing so in this case sounds fishy as anything I've ever heard. I'm very shocked that your instructor didn't make this clear. It is in fact your word against hers but you have a moral and ethical obligation to report it in any case.

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Mar 10, 2010

I agree with most of the posters here with a few exceptions. Never go into a room with a seasoned nurse and "suggest" that she needs to take a break and that you could watch things while she take a break. That's not going to roll over well with anybody on the floor. You're a guest in their hospital and by offering that suggestion (although with good intentions) isn't going to be any good for you or your school. They will look at you as brown nosing. What might be a better suggestion is to just stroll in there after the nurse had calmed down a bit and then "ask" if there's anything that she needs help with. I think that might have been better, playing dumb like you didn't hear a thing. I aso agree with the other suggestions about reporting it.

PhoenixTech, LPN · Mar 10, 2010

I agree with most of the posters here with a few exceptions. Never go into a room with a seasoned nurse and "suggest" that she needs to take a break and that you could watch things while she take a break. That's not going to roll over well with anybody on the floor. You're a guest in their hospital and by offering that suggestion (although with good intentions) isn't going to be any good for you or your school. They will look at you as brown nosing. What might be a better suggestion is to just stroll in there after the nurse had calmed down a bit and then "ask" if there's anything that she needs help with. I think that might have been better, playing dumb like you didn't hear a thing. I aso agree with the other suggestions about reporting it.

:confused: Why?

You don't have enough to go to the BON.
I suggest talking to your instructor again and tell her that while you understand that to her, it is only secondhand information, to you it is firsthand knowledge and you feel obligated to report it to someone. Ask for her help in identifying who that correct person is.
I am my hospital's liaison with our local nursing schools. When there are problems on either side (with staff or with students or faculty), people report it to me and I follow up on it. So don't think that your choice is only "report it to government authorities or don't report it to anybody." There are probably some options that will provide appropriate follow-up without causing the big trouble (and no results because you have no evidence) that going directly to the government would cause.

While I do agree with the chain of command aspect of your post, I'm a little confused about the BON aspect. If RN's can have adverse consequences just for the mere suggestion that they are diverting, or of an anonymous report by a co-worker/manager accusing a RN of the suspicion of drug/alcohol use, why wouldn't her report about the physical abuse against a newborn kick off an investigation and therefore be effective? Even if that effectiveness is just the act of bringing this RN to the attention of someone else?

Please know that I'm not trying to kick off an ugly debate. In my opinion, too many of our children are abused and even killed because someone knew/suspected and didn't say anything for fear of getting involved. Look at any number of the cases of child abuse/neglect leading to death. There's always someone, many times Family Services themselves who could have made a difference had they spoken up or taken some kind of action.

Absolutely she would have been well within her rights to walk in there and suggest the RN take a break. Like the poster said, knowing that someone witnessed your behavior, or even the mere suspicion that someone did, may be the catalyst that the RN needs to evalutate her situation, whatever it might be, and make some changes. The fact is that people of all walks of life make poor choices everyday and I'm not judging the offending RN. We all act for a reason, both positive and negative actions, and condemning her is not my job or choice. However, advocating for that newborn child, even as a student RN is her responsibility and to **** with the relationship with the school!

The parents of that newborn, GOD forbid had anything serious happened, is not going care that the student didn't act because she wanted to maintain a relationship with her school. It's just ridiculous to me that 'brown nosing' would even be an issue. Seriously, who cares about popularity in the face of child abuse?

NurseCubanita, I'm not suggesting that you are ridiculous, just the idea of 'brown nosing' in this particular situation.

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Mar 10, 2010

There are many reasons as to why and I did explain some. But if you want me to go into more detail I can. First off you don't now the people in that facility very well. You don't know how they perceive students or if they even welcome them. Most likely if the SN witnessed something like that it does tell you something about the nurse herself. If she's like that, how do you think she's going to respond to a SN telling her that "you need to take a break, I can watch the nursery for you"? Most likely not very well. Also keep in mind that most places wont leave a SN in a nursery by themselves. There usually always has to be some sort of licensed staff in there at all times. Ultimately who is responsible? The RN who's in charge of nursery that day. Anway, most nurses don't care for SN all that well even though they were once in their shoes. So for a SN to make some suggestions to a seasoned RN isn't going to go well. I overheard a RN make a comment about student nurses and called them "busy bodies" and I asked why would they say that and she had made a comment that a SN was trying to tell her how to do her job. Also for that specific group that was in there, it seemed like they all had that nasty habit. So it's just best to keep your noses clean and do what you have to do. If you see something that isn't right, cover your butt and report it to your instructor, and then go from there.

PhoenixTech, LPN · Mar 11, 2010

the question was rhetorical; i really didn't need a more detailed explanation as i understood your reasoning behind it initially. i'm just appalled that what someone thinks about you and how they're going to respond to something that they perceive as being offensive would even matter in that circumstance, let alone be a cause for hesitancy.

if she's acting the way that she is, why would her opinion even be of value when it's clear that her behavior displays how out of control she is? better yet, an out of control response would've further validated the sn's observation and stance.

you know, my concern isn't with the politics of the school or if a seasoned rn called me a busy body, who the **** cares?! really. i myself choose to believe that it's the few as opposed to the many who show disdain and hostility towards sn's. what has the fact that she's a seasoned rn have to do with it? are you implying that seasoned rn's can't take suggestions? once someone thinks they're too old and experienced to remain teachable that person is in trouble. also, if the school is a quality school, then i doubt that they'd fail to back that student should the need arise. in addition, if the relationship with the hospital is that precarious then that's not a facility i would want to learn from anyway. how is placating the school and their sn's productive?

listen, i was raised to respect my elders and even in my roughest times it was a principle that i never compromised on. no one is suggesting that the sn run in there with fire and brimstone emanating from her and order the rn to hand over the baby in a raised and disrespectful tone. in such an instance as that, i see nothing wrong with walking in with a sympathetic smile and suggesting that she take a time out, so to speak. hey, maybe the gesture would've caused the rn to smile sheepishly, allows the rn to hold the baby and sit down in the nursery with the sn while she gathered herself. she might even have opened up and taken the opportunity to release some things she's been having trouble with that may be impairing her judgment. the point would have been to alert her to the fact that she was observed acting inappropriately at best and in the act of abuse at worse.

you'd be surprised at what a non-judgmental and empathetic smile could do. i'm not attacking you, please know that, nor am i dismissing your beliefs. i just happen to believe very strongly that rocking the boat shouldn't have been a consideration had the sn decided to intervene.

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2010

you'd be surprised at what a non-judgmental and empathetic smile could do. i'm not attacking you, please know that, nor am i dismissing your beliefs. i just happen to believe very strongly that rocking the boat shouldn't have been a consideration had the sn decided to intervene.

i'm not taking it as an attack so don't worry about that. i've seen things in many different facilities, and that's what i'm going by. she did the right thing by alerting her ci, but for her to take matters into her own hands is a different situation. this seasoned rn is someone that most likely students don't know and how the person would react if the sn would have approached her. what if the seasoned rn would have blown up at her and caused a scene, i've seen a situation like that happened between a sn and a seasoned rn. it wasn't pretty and luckily there was another seasoned rn there to back up the sn, but considering that there would have been no witnesses to back up the sn in this particular situation in question, it would be the rns word over her own, and the administration will always back up their employees over guests in their facility. that's just my opinion, and i know you respect mine, as i do yours.

nursekimmi · Mar 11, 2010

:crying2:I am a first year nursing student in an associates program. We started our OB rotation yesterday. This morning my classmate and I participated in a first full newborn assessment with the nursery nurse as our guide. She wasn't very personable but she answered our questions and was pleasant enough. At about 12:00pm I went to use the restroom but it was occupied so I started to walk over to look in the nursery window(it is right around the corner from the restroom). I heard someone talking in a loud angry voice and I immediately thought it was one nurse complaining to another nurse about some problem so I started to walk away. As I turned my head I saw the nursey nurse holding a baby over the sink. She was washing his head and the baby was crying ,which is not in itself a problem ,however she was being very rough with him and the water was pouring all over his face and in his eyes and over his mouth.I realized there was no other nurse in the room and that she was yelling at the baby. She said "Shut up you need to shut up" and "I'm tired of you, I've had enough of you today". I froze because I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. I stood as close to the door as I could to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting something and I heard her tell him to shut up 3 more times. She had her back/side to me the whole time. I stepped back as she turned to get a towel. She then continued to complain and roughly handle the little one. She banged aound the room and dropped him into his bassinet. I have 5 children of my own and I know that babies are a lot more durable then people think, but believe me if anyone had handled any of my children that way they would not be standing at this point in time (if you get what I mean). I went to find my instructor but she was in the middle of something. When I started back towards the nursery I saw the nurse walking down the hall dragging 2 empty bassinets. Her face was read and she looked truly angry (thats the only word I can think of that fits). We gather for post comference a little after 12:00. I waited for everyone to leave and then I told my instructor what I had witnessed. She said the problem is that I was alone and she is getting the story second hand. Is this true ? Because I was the only one does that mean there really is no proof? It breaks my heart to think that this women will continue to work there. I know we all have hard days sometimes but this was not exceptable behavior. It turns out the nurse only had 2 babies in the nursery all morning and she had been told at about 11:30 or so that she was getting 3 more. I know the work is hard but that is no excuse. If anyone has had a similar problem I would appreciate some wisdom or just any kind of help here. Thankyou.

I am sorry...I couldn't even finish reading your post beyond the nurse being abusive...you are a MANDATED REPORTER FOR ABUSE TO CHILDREN AND ELDERLY...in fact, you MUST REPORT abuse in any arena that you're in. Don't discount YOURSELF because you're still a student. I am a CNA/RN student and have had to have places closed down because I witnessed abuse before....I hope this helps you understand that we have a responsibility to our community to report abuse.