I don't believe this.

Posted
by Town & Country Town & Country (Member)

I read this, and even knowing what LTC facilities are like, even I am shocked, and that is saying something.

I work for a 911 dispatch center for EMS in Florida. Last night a recieved a call from and assisted living facility. The person on the phone was asking for lifting assistance for a patient that had fallen on the floor. I then asked if there was a nurse on duty that could come in and help the patient up off the floor. The man told me there was no staff on duty. This was around midnight. Assuming it was the patients roomate suffering from dementia, I called the main line number to the ALF. The same man answered the phone and told me he was the only one there. Of course we sent out an engine to assist the woman and when they got onscene they said there actually was NO staff on duty! The man who answered the phone was a maintenence man.

We promptly sent a deputy over there to see what was going on. The maintenence man explained to him that he was CPR certified and had been authorized to watch the pts for a full two hours every night when there was no staff on duty. The deputy wrote an information report and called us back saying he didnt know enough about nursing home laws to make any criminal charges.

So my question is, is this legal?? Do assisted living facilities have seperate laws than nursing homes do? Is this something I should report? I know if that was my mother and there was no qualified staff on duty for any amount of time at any hour I would be outraged.

Just another note, the deputy was told by the maintenence man that the patients he was supervising were "independent livers" and at low risk of injury during the night. The deputy told me the lady who fell out of bed was 98 years old. And who knows how long she was on the floor. Can she really be an "independent liver" if she was on the floor unable to get herself up?

http://www.prairielaw.com/messagebo...lId=26&mbId=124

:uhoh21:

Town & Country

Town & Country

789 Posts

I read this, and even knowing what LTC facilities are like, even I am shocked, and that is saying something.

I work for a 911 dispatch center for EMS in Florida. Last night a recieved a call from and assisted living facility. The person on the phone was asking for lifting assistance for a patient that had fallen on the floor. I then asked if there was a nurse on duty that could come in and help the patient up off the floor. The man told me there was no staff on duty. This was around midnight. Assuming it was the patients roomate suffering from dementia, I called the main line number to the ALF. The same man answered the phone and told me he was the only one there. Of course we sent out an engine to assist the woman and when they got onscene they said there actually was NO staff on duty! The man who answered the phone was a maintenence man.

We promptly sent a deputy over there to see what was going on. The maintenence man explained to him that he was CPR certified and had been authorized to watch the pts for a full two hours every night when there was no staff on duty. The deputy wrote an information report and called us back saying he didnt know enough about nursing home laws to make any criminal charges.

So my question is, is this legal?? Do assisted living facilities have seperate laws than nursing homes do? Is this something I should report? I know if that was my mother and there was no qualified staff on duty for any amount of time at any hour I would be outraged.

Just another note, the deputy was told by the maintenence man that the patients he was supervising were "independent livers" and at low risk of injury during the night. The deputy told me the lady who fell out of bed was 98 years old. And who knows how long she was on the floor. Can she really be an "independent liver" if she was on the floor unable to get herself up?

http://www.prairielaw.com/messagebo...lId=26&mbId=124

:uhoh21:

weetziebat

weetziebat

775 Posts

Wow! That is scary. I don't know about "independent livers" but it seems to me that if you have a home, whether assisted living or not, you are responsible for having qualified staff available 24/7. And this would not include a maintenence man with CPR qualification.

If my loved one lived in such an arrangement I would be livid. You just know that the families of these folks were not told that things would be this way. And I am sure that the folks living there were not aware when they signed up that they would have to depend on a maintenence man for their care.

I don't know if this is technically legal, but it should not be, that's for sure.

weetziebat

weetziebat

775 Posts

Wow! That is scary. I don't know about "independent livers" but it seems to me that if you have a home, whether assisted living or not, you are responsible for having qualified staff available 24/7. And this would not include a maintenence man with CPR qualification.

If my loved one lived in such an arrangement I would be livid. You just know that the families of these folks were not told that things would be this way. And I am sure that the folks living there were not aware when they signed up that they would have to depend on a maintenence man for their care.

I don't know if this is technically legal, but it should not be, that's for sure.

NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion. Has 45 years experience. 11 Articles; 17,288 Posts

assited living facilites (alf) are not nursing homes. most are regulated, like in pa under boarding home regulations. minimal staffing requirements. patients are independent in ambulation or tranfers (wheelchair bound but can transfer themselves from bed to wc tp toilet). alfs are intended to be a less costly alternative to more restrictive, institutional settings for individuals who do not require 24-hour nursing supervision.

fla

assisted living facilities - florida department of elder affairs www.elderaffairs.state.fl.us/doea/english/lmd/alf.html

fla regs:

http://www.fdhc.state.fl.us/mchq/long_term_care/assisted_living/index.shtml

400.441 rules establishing standards.

c) the number, training, and qualifications of all personnel having responsibility for the care of residents. the rules must require adequate staff to provide for the safety of all residents. facilities licensed for 17 or more residents are required to maintain an alert staff for 24 hours per day.

400.4256 assistance with self-administration of medication.

1) for the purposes of this section, the term:

a) "informed consent" means advising the resident, or the resident's surrogate, guardian, or attorney in fact, that an assisted living facility is not required to have a licensed nurse on staff, that the resident may be receiving assistance with self-administration of medication from an unlicensed person, and that such assistance, if provided by an unlicensed person, will or will not be overseen by a licensed nurse.

400.426 appropriateness of placements; examinations of residents.

----------------

appears that this facility had an alert staff on duty who called for assisitance for client--meeting alf legal standards.

pa info:

http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/business/provbillingprofessionals/003670207.htm

NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion. Has 45 years experience. 11 Articles; 17,288 Posts

assited living facilites (alf) are not nursing homes. most are regulated, like in pa under boarding home regulations. minimal staffing requirements. patients are independent in ambulation or tranfers (wheelchair bound but can transfer themselves from bed to wc tp toilet). alfs are intended to be a less costly alternative to more restrictive, institutional settings for individuals who do not require 24-hour nursing supervision.

fla

assisted living facilities - florida department of elder affairs www.elderaffairs.state.fl.us/doea/english/lmd/alf.html

fla regs:

http://www.fdhc.state.fl.us/mchq/long_term_care/assisted_living/index.shtml

400.441 rules establishing standards.

c) the number, training, and qualifications of all personnel having responsibility for the care of residents. the rules must require adequate staff to provide for the safety of all residents. facilities licensed for 17 or more residents are required to maintain an alert staff for 24 hours per day.

400.4256 assistance with self-administration of medication.

1) for the purposes of this section, the term:

a) "informed consent" means advising the resident, or the resident's surrogate, guardian, or attorney in fact, that an assisted living facility is not required to have a licensed nurse on staff, that the resident may be receiving assistance with self-administration of medication from an unlicensed person, and that such assistance, if provided by an unlicensed person, will or will not be overseen by a licensed nurse.

400.426 appropriateness of placements; examinations of residents.

----------------

appears that this facility had an alert staff on duty who called for assisitance for client--meeting alf legal standards.

pa info:

http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/business/provbillingprofessionals/003670207.htm

dazzle256

dazzle256

258 Posts

I read this, and even knowing what LTC facilities are like, even I am shocked, and that is saying something.

I work for a 911 dispatch center for EMS in Florida. Last night a recieved a call from and assisted living facility. The person on the phone was asking for lifting assistance for a patient that had fallen on the floor. I then asked if there was a nurse on duty that could come in and help the patient up off the floor. The man told me there was no staff on duty. This was around midnight. Assuming it was the patients roomate suffering from dementia, I called the main line number to the ALF. The same man answered the phone and told me he was the only one there. Of course we sent out an engine to assist the woman and when they got onscene they said there actually was NO staff on duty! The man who answered the phone was a maintenence man.

We promptly sent a deputy over there to see what was going on. The maintenence man explained to him that he was CPR certified and had been authorized to watch the pts for a full two hours every night when there was no staff on duty. The deputy wrote an information report and called us back saying he didnt know enough about nursing home laws to make any criminal charges.

So my question is, is this legal?? Do assisted living facilities have seperate laws than nursing homes do? Is this something I should report? I know if that was my mother and there was no qualified staff on duty for any amount of time at any hour I would be outraged.

Just another note, the deputy was told by the maintenence man that the patients he was supervising were "independent livers" and at low risk of injury during the night. The deputy told me the lady who fell out of bed was 98 years old. And who knows how long she was on the floor. Can she really be an "independent liver" if she was on the floor unable to get herself up?

http://www.prairielaw.com/messagebo...lId=26&mbId=124

:uhoh21:

That must not be that uncommon. I had a patient come into the hospital the other day for a G.I. bleed. She told me that it happened in the middle of the night and only the maintenance man was on duty he is the one to call 911. Surprised me a bit too.

dazzle256

dazzle256

258 Posts

I read this, and even knowing what LTC facilities are like, even I am shocked, and that is saying something.

I work for a 911 dispatch center for EMS in Florida. Last night a recieved a call from and assisted living facility. The person on the phone was asking for lifting assistance for a patient that had fallen on the floor. I then asked if there was a nurse on duty that could come in and help the patient up off the floor. The man told me there was no staff on duty. This was around midnight. Assuming it was the patients roomate suffering from dementia, I called the main line number to the ALF. The same man answered the phone and told me he was the only one there. Of course we sent out an engine to assist the woman and when they got onscene they said there actually was NO staff on duty! The man who answered the phone was a maintenence man.

We promptly sent a deputy over there to see what was going on. The maintenence man explained to him that he was CPR certified and had been authorized to watch the pts for a full two hours every night when there was no staff on duty. The deputy wrote an information report and called us back saying he didnt know enough about nursing home laws to make any criminal charges.

So my question is, is this legal?? Do assisted living facilities have seperate laws than nursing homes do? Is this something I should report? I know if that was my mother and there was no qualified staff on duty for any amount of time at any hour I would be outraged.

Just another note, the deputy was told by the maintenence man that the patients he was supervising were "independent livers" and at low risk of injury during the night. The deputy told me the lady who fell out of bed was 98 years old. And who knows how long she was on the floor. Can she really be an "independent liver" if she was on the floor unable to get herself up?

http://www.prairielaw.com/messagebo...lId=26&mbId=124

:uhoh21:

That must not be that uncommon. I had a patient come into the hospital the other day for a G.I. bleed. She told me that it happened in the middle of the night and only the maintenance man was on duty he is the one to call 911. Surprised me a bit too.

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