I'm a marketing/pr professional, hoping to start an entry-level MSN program in the fall (God willing). I know these types of programs are relatively new. My question is for those of you who have completed such a program or you nurses who have coworkers from these programs, how are the nurses received in the work environment? I guess what I'm trying to see is if there's any type of tension or animosity directed toward those who enter into the field with an entry to nursing MSN degree. I know the "Clinical Nurse Leader" role has yet to fully materialize in hospitals and all of us will start off as entry-level RNs due to he lack of experience, regardless of the degree behind us, but I'm wondering how other nurses view those that have taken this route.
My ultimate goal is to become a neonatal NP, but I know I have to (and I want to) pay my dues first and get all of the experience I can as an RN. Other than allowing me to go back in a few years to get a post-masters certificate in neonatal NP, I have yet to fully comprehend what the MSN Clinical Nurse Leader degree will mean to my career starting off, and how I will be accepted and viewed by other nurses and administrators. But this is the best option available to career changers with ba/bs degrees in other fields, so I'm going with it.
The CNL programs in California, are usually 2-3 years and yes you have to wait until the end of the entire thing to take the NCLEX and get CNL certification. I have never heard of a CNL program that does pre-licensure work, make you pass the NCLEX and then continue with CNL Masters portion.
And to the OP, are you in SoCal did you say? Cal state Long Beach has an amazing entry level msn program...awared BSN/MSN/ and NP certification after 3 years. Or Cal State Los Angeles. It was really hard to sort through the programs in California, they are all over the place a total mess I think. We've got CNL's direct-entry NP's, 2 or 3 year general masters programs without CNL, I agree that its a full time job just researching all this stuff.
Great thread! I'm so happy I found this, everyone here is really interested in discussing these issues, and are well researched in the subject matter.
Hey AeroNat,
Yes, I'm in SoCal. Unfortunately, the only school in southern cali that has a neonatal NP option is Loma Linda, and their program is on hold. I'm not really interested in any of the other NP specialities (heart is set on neonatal). That's why I'm going with the MEPN/CNL route (preferably Cal State Dominguez - based on affordability, location, scope of program, length of program), work for 2 years in a level 3 NICU (God-willing), then apply to a post-master's NNP certificate program, which I can do the courses online, and clinicals here. Now there are plenty of schools that have direct-entry programs with a NNP option, but I'm not trying to leave Cali. UCSF has one, but it's really expensive, extremely competitive, and lengthy (this one does require you to work once you pass boards, then return for NNP courses). I already have a masters from USC and I'm not trying to take out any more loans, so this path is the best one for me.
And yes, I agree with your assessment of SoCal programs! All over the place is right! Some are 2 years, some are 3, some require more prereqs than others. A mess is right - no damn consistency! But I really like Cal State Dominguez's program and staff, so I'm hoping I'll get in. Had my interview this past Monday and it went well!
If I'm at all envious it's over the sheer number of options that are available today. Not only are there more options available for the entry level nurse, there are also many more options for nurses who want to further their education. Frankly, for the right person I think an entry-level MSN makes sense. I think someone who does this has to be an exceptional candidate, very motivated and pretty mature. For others, an accelerated BSN might be better---maybe in terms of time, geographical location, cost and one's career and professional goals. (In all honesty, though, the only entry level option that I would not recommend for the aspiring RN is the ADN if one already has a bachelor's or higher degree in another field----because you go through all the work to get the ADN, same amount of time more or less as the ELMSN or accelerated BSN---and you end up with an associate's degree and have to go back for yet MORE education if you want to progress past bedside nursing.)
BTW, and this is sheer speculation on my part, but I can see a future in which today's CNL is tomorrow's clinical educator or nurse manager. Yes, to assume a position of leadership at the bedside requires clinical expertise that can't be accomplished solely in any program, but it seems to me that the advanced assessment/critical thinking skills and emphasis on advanced theory and applications of research to practice would be helpful for roles like clinical educator or manager. Currently most facilities require their educators and managers to have at least bachelor's degrees and some are encouraging the master's. So I am curious to see if the DEMSN students, particularly those in CNL tracks (as opposed to NP tracks) also see this in the future or if I'm off the wall here.
Yes and no. We certainly are not being trained to be your next manager or clinical educator but I can definitely see how a CNL might end up there.
Personally, I dont see why extra emphasis on EBP, theory and research is a bad idea. I think its a good foundation and keeps us current and will ultimately serve to improve patient outcomes. ANd that is the ultimate goal with this type of education and degree. To improve patient outcomes by staying current on EBP and research and by making things more efficient at the microsystem level.
I am still waffling though on the CNL cert to be perfectly honest. I will probably end up doing it (can't hurt right?) but my ultimate goal, once I get a least a solid 5-10 years under my belt in experience (my own personal guidelines/timeliness) is go to on and either become a CNM or an NP in Women's Health.
Ok, I understand your situation better because you already have a masters plus the CNL is the least work possible to get the job done and not go in a completely wrong direction with another random NP certification.
UCSF denied me already so let's just forget that way too expensive anyways. I did apply to UCLA for its CNL and am still waiting until March, but like you said Dominguez Hills is probably more affordable. UCLA is two years, how long is the Dominguez Hills program? I never looked into that school very much. I applied to Fullerton too, but they just changed their program from a CNS to a general masters and it takes 3 years. It seems too long to me. Really I am holding out for Long Beach, they are allowing students to choose NP specialties this year instead of forcing the CNS curriculum in previous years. But its funny it does not say that on their website anywhere I had to go to an info session to find out. Almost every one of my schools I applied to has changed their application/program in some major way this last year, so hard to keep up with. Now I wish I would have considered Dominguez Hills at some point, but I guess you can't look into everything.
I hope you get into Dominguez Hills, that's crazy you already had your interview. They could use another awesome nursing student! And let's not leave California!
Is it designed that you don't take your NCLEX until after you finish the entire program and obtain your masters or is there a prelicensure phase in which you must obtain your RN license before moving into the MSN?
I take the NCLEX this summer. If I don't pass, I cant finish my degree. No exceptions.
My program is 2 years, year round. The first years is front loaded with all the nursing basics and appropriate clinicals (fundamentals, med/surg, peds, OB, public health, psych) as well as a semester of pharm and 2 semesters of patho. While we are doing all of that, we get theory, nursing & change in health services, and research.
This week I start my second and final year. I have my 10 credit clinical nursing leadership immersion experience/preceptorship. I am in Maternity/L&D as I outlined in an above post that that is where my interest lies. Other students are in ICU, med/surg, peds, ER, surgery...any specialty, you name it, we have a student there. Also this semester we have a course in clinical epidemiology and decision analysis and a course in health care systems & leadership.
Summer marks NCLEX and a course in Promoting Quality Management. We are strongly encourage to work as soon as we are licensed. And as I said earlier, not passing the NCLEX, means you cannot finish your degree.
Provided we do obtain our license, in the fall, we have our practicum/capstone project and seminar.
Dominguez is two years as well. I think all schools are making changes, and I think it's due to the programs being relatively new, so they are still working out the kinks - sorta like when the iphone first came out. Like with Dominguez, you need pathophysiology and they use to accept it from a community college - however, now, you have to take it through them, if you are planning to apply, even if you don't get into the program. So that's $200/unit vs. $26/unit for this 3 unit online course. Yeah, wish I would've taken it last year - could've gotten by with taking it at a JC. Also, I start the CNA program at West LA next week. I really want to get some additional experience before I start, so I can at least be somewhat comfortable with starting clinicals and not just walking in to this completely unknown territory, then passing out when asked to wipe someone's @ass! ........I'd rather pass out in CNA clinicals than in MEPN's, and strengthen my stomach and poker face now! Well, when I mentioned this in my interview, I was told it was a GREAT idea and future applicants may want/have to consider it as well. I know many programs have the CNA license as a prereq. Dominguez offers NP MSNs and Post-Masters Certificates, but not for the MEPN students. However, I wouldn't be suprised if these role options become a part of the MEPN program, in addition to the CNL role, in the near future. So yeah, I expect changes to occur over the next few years. I only applied to Dominguez. So, all my eggs (and future) are in their hands (......well, actually it's all in God's hands )!
Good luck to you too! I hope Cal State Long Beach sends you good news - I've heard really great things about that program and Cal State LA, which is where my BFF wants to go! Keep me posted!
Interesting. Because that is exactly how my program works.
Yeah, Dominguez doesn't even sign for students to sit for NCLEX until they have met all requirements for the MSN portion, which is the end of the 2 year program. I asked why many other schools in Cali do not allow students to take the NCLEX, and was told that in other programs/states, where students are allowed to do this, they found that after passing boards and getting their RN license, many students were not returning to finish up the MSN portion of the program. So technically you have an RN license but no academic degree to accompany it. Not sure, but I don't think that is ok. Like in addition to your RN, you would need an ADN, BSN or MSN to practice - but these students are just practicing with a license and no official degree granted. Now some schools offer a BSN at the end of the first year when students are allowed to take the NCLEX, in which that is fine I guess. But the goal for the schools is to turn out Masters prepared nurses. So in a way, this protects the schools and follows state regulations, and in the end, it benefits the students also, by ensuring that they receive their MSN and not putting it on hold or never completing it.
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
I think you might encounter some resentment from other nurses. For some reason, some nurses tend to resent people who try to further their education, as if they think you are doing it just to feel as if you're better than them.
I dont understand this mentality. You already have a bs in something, it makes alot of sense for you to go straight for the msn. Just don't advertise it and you will be fine. I do hope that you will pay your dues and learn as much as possible at the bedside because in Nsg, advanced degrees really are no substitute for experience. Good Luck.
I think you might encounter some resentment from other nurses. For some reason, some nurses tend to resent people who try to further their education, as if they think you are doing it just to feel as if you're better than them.
I dont understand this mentality. You already have a bs in something, it makes alot of sense for you to go straight for the msn. Just don't advertise it and you will be fine. I do hope that you will pay your dues and learn as much as possible at the bedside because in Nsg, advanced degrees really are no substitute for experience. Good Luck.
Personally, I dont see why extra emphasis on EBP, theory and research is a bad idea... To improve patient outcomes by staying current on EBP and research and by making things more efficient at the microsystem level.
It's not a BAD idea, but it can be unclear of what exactly the point is either. If a nurse is planning to be more actively involved in actually developing EBP nursing guidelines and/or to designing an entire facility's nursing care plans based on a specific theory and/or teaching those concepts at a lower level, then extra training would be useful. But if that's what CNL is for, just how much more prepared can they be than, say, a BSN if they are in a two year direct entry program which includes RN training as well?
I do think it's a bad habit that we tend to refer to nurses, and ourselves, by degree as opposed to licensure. We think "she's a BSN/MSN" but it's really that she's an RN who also has a certain degree. There are some RNs out there with degrees in law, accounting, even MD licensure in their home country. To make sure that one's RN colleagues are aware that "I'm a MBA" or "I'm an MD in XYZland" or "I'm a BSN/MSN" only sounds like a demand for extra respect. Why else say it? So best to avoid that as a DE masters grad in an entry-level position.
........I'd rather pass out in CNA clinicals than in MEPN's, and strengthen my stomach and poker face now! 
Well, when I mentioned this in my interview, I was told it was a GREAT idea and future applicants may want/have to consider it as well. I know many programs have the CNA license as a prereq. Dominguez offers NP MSNs and Post-Masters Certificates, but not for the MEPN students. However, I wouldn't be suprised if these role options become a part of the MEPN program, in addition to the CNL role, in the near future. So yeah, I expect changes to occur over the next few years. I only applied to Dominguez. So, all my eggs (and future) are in their hands (......well, actually it's all in God's hands 
)!
MiahMSN, MSN, RN
310 Posts
Hey AeroNat,
Yes, I'm in SoCal. Unfortunately, the only school in southern cali that has a neonatal NP option is Loma Linda, and their program is on hold. I'm not really interested in any of the other NP specialities (heart is set on neonatal). That's why I'm going with the MEPN/CNL route (preferably Cal State Dominguez - based on affordability, location, scope of program, length of program), work for 2 years in a level 3 NICU (God-willing), then apply to a post-master's NNP certificate program, which I can do the courses online, and clinicals here. Now there are plenty of schools that have direct-entry programs with a NNP option, but I'm not trying to leave Cali. UCSF has one, but it's really expensive, extremely competitive, and lengthy (this one does require you to work once you pass boards, then return for NNP courses). I already have a masters from USC and I'm not trying to take out any more loans, so this path is the best one for me.
And yes, I agree with your assessment of SoCal programs! All over the place is right! Some are 2 years, some are 3, some require more prereqs than others. A mess is right - no damn consistency! But I really like Cal State Dominguez's program and staff, so I'm hoping I'll get in. Had my interview this past Monday and it went well!