I am in a monitoring program for psychosis, not substance use. But I have to get UAs anyway, same as anyone else. I'm losing my mind over all the ways I could accidentally fail a drug test. I thought I could just avoid drugs and alcohol and be fine. But now I'm realizing I have to worry about sugar alcohols, poppy seeds, alcohol in cleaning products etc.
It seems impossible to pass this program! Almost every beauty product I have has alcohol in it. My case manager insists I don't have to worry about these with "normal use". But then I see all kinds of stories online about people getting false positives from food and household products.
Has anyone here actually made it through the program without false positives?
That's False. No offense, but your statement is 100% FALSE regarding the automatic 5 years.,.......keyword....IF the nurse gets an attorney and the nurse has an independent evaluation that is by a rehab type recovery center that says the nurse has no problem, then that attorney can push the issue with the BON and get the case into a court of law before an administrative law judge and then........it's not about about "what the BON accepts or who the BON listens to." The judge takes over. It's all about the judge at that point, and the judge 95% of the time DOES accept the independent eval. It's not about what the BON "uses" if it reaches a court of law in front of judge. It's about what the Judge uses.
But, most nurses never get the 2nd eval. Additionally, most don't get the 2nd eval and an attorney, and most don't get the 2nd eval, the attorney, and an eval that says no substance abuse issues. When you have these 3 factors, you have an incredible chance. Most nurses won't complete the 3 things above and they end up doing 3, 4, or 5 years.
As for a clinical psychologist, you are correct. They have little value unless they are certified or working literally in an addiction treatment center.
I second that! They will evaluate you and see if you have a SUD diagnosis, and will either frame your case around mental health, which could potentially give you fewer years for a contract, or if they deem you to have a SUD diagnosis, it would give you the max years. Either way, that evaluation is critical in tailoring your contract. It's not automatic for 5 years, depending on the state you are in. Some states are automatic 5, but not having a SUD diagnosis is better in terms of therapy frequency, testing, etc. You got this!
I second that! They will evaluate you and see if you have a SUD diagnosis, and will either frame your case around mental health, which could potentially give you fewer years for a contract, or if they deem you to have a SUD diagnosis, it would give you the max years. Either way, that evaluation is critical in tailoring your contract. It's not automatic for 5 years, depending on the state you are in. Some states are automatic 5, but not having a SUD diagnosis is better in terms of therapy frequency, testing, etc. You got this!
So, would you think the fact that I have a therapist I have been seeing the past 2 months from a family based recovery program from dcfs 3 x a week - assessments and negative drug screens - saying I do not meet criteria or have a substance use diagnosis. Is this sufficient to prove my case or I need yet another person who deals with substance use to assess and hopefully say the same thing?
So, would you think the fact that I have a therapist I have been seeing the past 2 months from a family based recovery program from dcfs 3 x a week - assessments and negative drug screens - saying I do not meet criteria or have a substance use diagnosis. Is this sufficient to prove my case or I need yet another person who deals with substance use to assess and hopefully say the same thing?
Hi Love,
So it all depends on what your program requires. Suppose they are strict about having their third-party evaluator conduct that initial evaluation; then, most likely, you will need it. However, since you have all of that documented in your favor, they will likely take that into account. I know you explained about the monetary part of it all, and that could be a challenge. Still, if your therapist already deemed you not to have a SUD diagnosis, then most likely a different evaluator will agree. I would bring all of your documentation to that evaluator if you end up needing it.
That's False. No offense, but your statement is 100% FALSE regarding the automatic 5 years.,.......keyword....IF the nurse gets an attorney and the nurse has an independent evaluation that is by a rehab type recovery center that says the nurse has no problem, then that attorney can push the issue with the BON and get the case into a court of law before an administrative law judge and then........it's not about about "what the BON accepts or who the BON listens to." The judge takes over. It's all about the judge at that point, and the judge 95% of the time DOES accept the independent eval. It's not about what the BON "uses" if it reaches a court of law in front of judge. It's about what the Judge uses.
But, most nurses never get the 2nd eval. Additionally, most don't get the 2nd eval and an attorney, and most don't get the 2nd eval, the attorney, and an eval that says no substance abuse issues. When you have these 3 factors, you have an incredible chance. Most nurses won't complete the 3 things above and they end up doing 3, 4, or 5 years.
As for a clinical psychologist, you are correct. They have little , tunless they are certified or working literally in an addiction treatment center.
It does not work. Getting an attorney is a waste of money. I had one and so did some of the other people. If you sign a RAMP contract, it is legally binding and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get out of it. It is absolutely insane that all this is even legal.
It does not work. Getting an attorney is a waste of money. I had one and so did some of the other people. If you sign a RAMP contract, it is legally binding and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get out of it. It is absolutely insane that all this is even legal.
I haven't signed any monitoring contract yet. They are still completing the initial assessment.
I agree. I had an attorney in the beginning and they didn't do anything for me I couldn't have done on my own. They have zero power. The board does whatever they want to do and an Attorney can't change any of that. I wish I had never gotten one. I dropped mine pretty quickly. Waste of money.
I haven't signed any monitoring contract yet. They are still completing the initial assessment.
OK good don't! I would call around and get some free consultations. There are attorneys that deal with this stuff. After you sign it, you are finished. No way to fight it.
The name is PAPNJ. Professional Assistance Program of New Jersey. You stated that "you heard that nurses can do the program as well instead of RAMP." <------that is Patially True and Partially Not True. If you are referred/under the BONs radar for narcotics or diversion and you are a nurse, you are going to do RAMP. It'd nearly automatic. If you got a DUI and/or there is some mental health issue and it's not related to on the job work (impaired at work, or diversion, etc) then thr BON will sometimes allow nurses in NJ to do the PAP program instead of RAMP.
Nurses can NOT choose which program they do. The BON decides and again, far, far, far more times than most, if you are a nurse and you are on the BONs radar for anything to do with diversion, narcotics, impaired at work, etc., then you are overwhelmingly likely to do RAMP. If you had a positive one time prr employment test for weed, or a DUI, or a mental health issue, or something not related to you being impaired on the job and your SUD eval finds that you don't really have much of a problem, then these are the nurses that the NJ BON will Sometimes be allowed to do PAP instead of RAMP.
Understand that like anything, there are Always exceptions to the rule. You may find the one or two people who were found passed out from diverting and using while at work that are in PAP instead of RAMP, but these are exceptions to the rule and very, very, very rare.
Your best chances of doing PAP instead of RAMP? You get a lawyer that argues for PAP, you have an SUD eval that shows no problem or very little problem, and you had some issue that isn't directly work related such as a DUI or positive weed test, or a mental health issue, etc.
In some respects, nurses in NJ can choose to do PAPNJ instead of RAMP. Most nurses only hear "if you want to keep/proect your license, you must join RAMP" as an alternative to discipline. They are never offered PAPNJ as a second alternative to discipline, but it is. Once in a contract with RAMP you can't switch to PAPNJ and vice versa. Typically if your evaluation arrives at a SUD disorder, you will have a 5 year contract in PAPNJ, the same as RAMP. Though PAPNJ maybe less punitive overall, it is more expensive and more frequent testing (2× per week testing 1st year, 1 time per week 2nd year, continuing to taper down over subsequent years). So pluses and minuses to both programs. If someone undergoing RAMP evaluation, but not under contract would want to switch to PAPNJ under contract as an alternative to discipline monitoring, the BON would likely want the duration of PAPNJ contract to match to match that of RAMP's recommendations which is typically 5 years and there would need to be a whole PAPNJ evaluation and all this would delay the start and completion of either program.
I'm looking for insight from nurses who have been in a similar situation. I'm currently in the HAVEN program in Connecticut, which is a confidential, non-disciplinary alternative to board action. My license remains clean—no public discipline, no restrictions visible on Nursys, and even my narcotics restriction is private.
I self-reported to HAVEN the same day I was confronted about a diversion incident. From the beginning, I've been fully compliant, with all negative toxicology tests. My case is being framed by my case manager and therapist as anxiety and situational distress-related, not substance use. I do not carry a substance use disorder diagnosis.
Once my narcotics restriction is lifted, I would like to return to an inpatient hospital role, possibly med-surg or another acute care setting. My case manager told me I do not need to disclose why I'm in the program to employers, unless absolutely necessary (e.g., if they require a liaison), but in that case I can mention the mental health issue. My diversion was really an isolated case for Ativan not that it makes it any better.
So my question is:
How difficult was it for those of you in a monitoring program—especially with a clean license and no SUD diagnosis—to find a hospital job?
Did you encounter major hurdles, or were some employers understanding and supportive once they saw compliance and transparency?
Any personal experiences or advice would really help as I prepare for my next steps. Thank you so much in advance.
Can I ask how things are going for you? I have been started with HAVEN for a positive urine test on an ER visit - nothing work or diversion related. When they got ahold of my medical records they now say no direct patient care at all because of ongoing seizures. I'm so depressed, I can't find a job, there's no way I can afford to keep doing this. Still haven't even been offered a monitoring program, just stuck in this limbo because I can't afford a second psychiatric evaluation.
Can I ask how things are going for you? I have been started with HAVEN for a positive urine test on an ER visit - nothing work or diversion related. When they got ahold of my medical records they now say no direct patient care at all because of ongoing seizures. I'm so depressed, I can't find a job, there's no way I can afford to keep doing this. Still haven't even been offered a monitoring program, just stuck in this limbo because I can't afford a second psychiatric evaluation.
Hi! I am in HAVEN as well. When I was talking to you yesterday, I wanted to ask you what program you were from, because I just had this feeling we were from the same program. When I first started HAVEN, it was the worst feeling I had, but I have gotten so much support from everyone there that I genuinely feel like it is a blessing in disguise. But, the not working part is only until they get some clean urine, and your therapist clears you to work, which, since you have all that paperwork, I see no problem with he/she doing so. Since you had just the ER urine coming positive, I do not see them giving you a five-year contract. The least you can get is a 3-year, but they made it clear that 5 years is the standard. My case manager said it varies, and it all depends on your initial compliance. The initial period is very crucial. You will most likely be offered a monitoring contract within the next three months. The great thing is that there will be no mark on your license, and to potential employers, you can frame your case around mental health since you do not carry a SUD diagnosis. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Hi! I am in HAVEN as well. When I was talking to you yesterday, I wanted to ask you what program you were from, because I just had this feeling we were from the same program. When I first started HAVEN, it was the worst feeling I had, but I have gotten so much support from everyone there that I genuinely feel like it is a blessing in disguise. But, the not working part is only until they get some clean urine, and your therapist clears you to work, which, since you have all that paperwork, I see no problem with he/she doing so. Since you had just the ER urine coming positive, I do not see them giving you a five-year contract. The least you can get is a 3-year, but they made it clear that 5 years is the standard. My case manager said it varies, and it all depends on your initial compliance. The initial period is very crucial. You will most likely be offered a monitoring contract within the next three months. The great thing is that there will be no mark on your license, and to potential employers, you can frame your case around mental health since you do not carry a SUD diagnosis. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out.
So I'm already on week 4 of negative urines. I'm stuck in limbo because I can't afford another evaluation out of pocket until I work. I can't feed my kids.
RNigothis
21 Posts
I second that! They will evaluate you and see if you have a SUD diagnosis, and will either frame your case around mental health, which could potentially give you fewer years for a contract, or if they deem you to have a SUD diagnosis, it would give you the max years. Either way, that evaluation is critical in tailoring your contract. It's not automatic for 5 years, depending on the state you are in. Some states are automatic 5, but not having a SUD diagnosis is better in terms of therapy frequency, testing, etc. You got this!