How do Nursing Instructors deal with this? Clinical site RNs don't want us around

[chicagrl]

Hi

I am a first year student. We have clinical once per week and have just started interacting with patients. Today we gave or helped with bed baths. The problem I see so far is that the nurses are definitely not friendly...in fact none of them seem to want us around. We are mostly in the way. I feel that this is an issue my school should deal with, at least our instructor. She finally admitted today that none of the nurses are very friendly. I am not sure what type of relationship she has with them but it does not seem like much of one.

Has this happened to you and how did you deal with it. We were supposed to sit in on report this morning and got "shooed away" literally. "shoo" We ended up talking with the PCT and eventually gave a bed bath . Our clinical instructor came to check up on us and then later told us all the things we "should" have done etc. It just seems like we need to shadow more but our instructor says we will only learn from "DOING" I agree but i had never even seen a heart monitor or leg compression boots until today ...as i was helping a pt get clean.

Any insight would be great . every one in my group is already counting down the clinical days.....we only go once per week ...until DECEMBER . It is obviously our instructors job to teach us - plus we have a skills check off session each week before clinical. It just seems to be very "incongruent"....

[AmaurosisFugax]

Pushy, foot stomping 'You owe it to me 'cause I have to study so hard and pay tuition' student nurses really would annoy me big time. I would give them the cold shoulder if they acted that way with me.

I am not a nurse so I wont address the original concern raised by the OP.

However the above piqued my interest (& no I'm passing judgement on it) - in the 3 fields I'm experienced in, corporate, med school & biomedical research, pushy, demanding students/interns may annoy people but are also looked upon with a grudging admiration; they are the go-getters, the ambitious, the type-A's, the driven. I wonder could this difference in perception be due to the fact that nursing is regarded as a caring profession (as opposed to the corporate field or even medical school). Or could it be gender-related since traditionally most corporate interns/med school or research applicants were male.

[ICU/CCU, BSN, RN]

I am not a nurse so I wont address the original concern raised by the OP.

However the above piqued my interest (& no I'm passing judgement on it) - in the 3 fields I'm experienced in, corporate, med school & biomedical research, pushy, demanding students/interns may annoy people but are also looked upon with a grudging admiration; they are the go-getters, the ambitious, the type-A's, the driven.

I understand what you are saying to a point. However, there is a big difference between assertive, which is a very good thing, and aggressive which is not. An assertive student nurse who wants to "see all" and "do all" is a great thing. An aggressive student nurse who thinks that somehow she worked to get where she is and the nurse who has already jumped through the hoops has not - not so good.

[luvmy3kids]

I don't give allowances for bad behavior based on how bad of a day someone is having. You choose to play the victim and take it out on other people. I just stay away from the RN at my clinical sight because she is not the least bit helpful.

And I am a traditional student and I don't like generalizations. I choose to go to school right after high school and to prioritize my schooling over relationships and having children. So I work my butt off to make sure I have everything in order. It varies person to person.

Huh?? Are you saying that those of us who are in school and a relationship as well as are parents do not have everything in order? I'm confused.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

honestly could care less if the hospital we work at hires most of you....no offense, we would rather have experienced nurses hired, it just makes our days easier.

And where do you suppose those experienced nurses are going to come from? Why do you reckon you're so short staffed at your (and most other) hospital(s)?

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

For those of you that feel entitled to certain things this will be a difficult experience for you and the staff that are unfortunate enough to have you on their unit. For those of you that are willing to take each experience as it comes, help where applicable, ask appropriate questions at appropriate times and basically act as the guests that you are on the unit you will benefit from most of your clinical experiences.

I don't know about the rest of the newbies, but I don't feel entitled to anything other than common, human courtesy. If you don't have time to have me shadow you or ask you an occasional question, fine. I understand fully, as I've been in the adult workforce for many years. However, if a nurse thinks her crappy attitude regarding students, work load and stress entitles them to belittle me and talk down to me and talk s&^% about me to my face, then they'd better be well prepared to be called out on it. I can be a far bigger a-hole than most, when it's called for.

Also, most students on this forum realize that there are dumb, lazy, arrogant and ignorant nursing students out there, making your life miserable. We see them every day in class and clinical. We dislike them as much as you do. One has to wonder how they ever got into the program to begin with. It's likely they'll be no better as a nurse than they are as a student.

We also recognize that there are 1000s of great nurses out there who accept us and welcome us into the brother/sisterhood, and try to make us the best nurse we can be. I'm sure I speak for all the students here when I tell you that I appreciate these nurses greatly. I've had some very, very good nurses welcome me to their floors and show me/let me do things I'd never have been allowed to do otherwise. I'm also married to a damned good nurse.

Unfortunately, most nursing students are scared to say "boo" without being told to do so, so ogres and a-holes continue to run them into the ground, and use "stress" or "overworked" or whatever else as an excuse.

By the way: This girl who made the "hard earned money" gaffe has been well and properly chastised for that comment, and I think she now gets the point that you're not paid to mentor her.

Try to remember that she's a BRAND NEW NURSING STUDENT THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHETHER SHE'S WASHING OR HANGING OUT (Or 'come here' from 'sic em', if you're southern enough). Give her time to learn, and maybe...just maybe...she'll become that valued coworker ALL nurses regularly cry out for.

Or maybe she'll be scared off, and can serve you your tea and fajitas at Chili's, if you ever get a lunch break.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

I am in NO way saying that it excuses the behavior of the nurses and making you leave report is ridiculous - but when I say "no" to taking a student it is because I know I have been stretched far enough and I cannot even be nice to the people I like that day. Just try to think of the other side too.

That right there is a simple, courteous way to prevent what happened to the OP and others from ever happening. The nurse that is overwhelmed definitely needs to be allowed to say "NO", rather than have one more annoyance piled on top of the already existing mountain of annoyances she's carrying around.

I salute your discernment, and hope for that discernment in myself and all other nurses.

[ICU/CCU, BSN, RN]

And where do you suppose those experienced nurses are going to come from? Why do you reckon you're so short staffed at your (and most other) hospital(s)?

Wow! We aren't short staffed at all. Our hospital, unlike many, staffs appropriately. We also have people move on to further their careers, travel, CCRN, NP, etc. We hired a bunch of new grads who were at our hospital for school, so they must have thought we were ok to work with......

Clearly, you did not understand my post. I said that there is NO excuse for nurses behaving that way, but you need to understand that we get tired and need a break too. I have said "no" to having a nursing student on TWO occassions in over 11 years. I have been nice and taught quite a lot to nursing students who request to be with me and tell others to request me as well. They even chose me to be their preceptor once they graduated.

I hope that you lose some of your attitude. Nurses who realize that they cannot know everything make the best nurses.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

If you think I don't understand the situation, then I believe you should read more of my posts. I understand it well. I've been on a floor that sucked, with nurses who despised us (as shown in my first post in this thread), and I've also been on floors that rocked, with nurses that were, at the least, courteous to us. Many of them went out of their way to direct our learning. Which can only benefit everyone involved. In this very thread, I've extolled their virtues and spoken my appreciation for them.

You say you'd just as soon new nurses not be hired at your hospital...you'd prefer them to hire only experienced nurses, to lighten your heavy load. I asked you where you planned to continue to find these experienced nurses. Somehow, to you, that is displaying "attitude"? I think it's a pretty logically grounded question.

I, and most nursing students, know full well what we DON'T know. Which is a lot. What we're asking for is a chance to LEARN it, and not be ridiculed and walked on while doing so. How that is an unreasonable request is beyond my ken.

I've never been to your hospital, but I'm happy that your hospital is so well staffed, and I'm thankful to you for precepting my fellow nursing students.

[ICU/CCU, BSN, RN]

Bortaz,

Perhaps with all of this discussion my statement about hiring experienced nurses was ill-placed. I am happy to have new nurses, however I work in ICU and too many new nurses at the same time is very difficult. It isn't safe either. My posts come from the place where I am in charge, the unit is full and perhaps I have one other experienced nurse working.

I don't mind questions. In fact, if these nurses asked more questions of me and didn't just do everything that a doctor said without thinking, everybody's job would be easier.

I do remember those days as a student and I don't want to discount that they are difficult for you, but I am not that nurse.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

My wife has been a nurse for 25 years or there abouts, so I do understand your side of the deal. I've heard the stories from her many times. As I said, we know some students are nimrods.

I just wish there was a way for the two groups to mesh better, so that the overworked nurses could get some relief, and the "lost" students could acquire some much needed learning.

As a nursing student who hopes and prays that he lands in an ICU unit (NICU or PICU, specifically), I'm a bit (overly)sensitive to any appearance of my not being welcomed there. (I'm in contact with many residency/internship programs in my great state.) I'm working on a 3rd career, I have grandkids, I'm getting old, and I'm a darn good nursing student (at least I've been assured that I am). I cherish the chance to practice my skills, whether for the first time or the 10th time. I probably ask too many questions. But, I also have the ability to know when and when not to ask those questions. Hopefully, despite the exercise in futility I experienced in my first clinical last year, I haven't been in anyone's way, and haven't been a burden.

It's a fine line between being eager, and being in the way. Nurses can help students recognize that line with a properly delivered word.

I apologize if I responded inappropriately to your post.

[redtshirt]

I have had similar problems with a few nurses too. My first day we clung to a nurse so much so that she asked us not to follow her to the toilet. We were told by our instructor to use our initiative to get in to see whatever was happening. Its very hard when you first start off i felt like a spare bedpan for the first two weeks. When you become more confident with washes etc you can go and do those first off do the ones you can manage on your own. Then when all the patients are organised for breakfast you can look through your duties for th eday and say to your nurse, the patients are up and dressed can i assist with mr x's dressing today, can i watch the drug round, can i learn about catheter care. When they see that youve helped out and are not just 'in the way' they will look at you diferently and becuase you state what you want you can hardly say no. Nursing also involves assertiveness with patients and coworkers alike.

Good luck!

[vashtee, RN]

I am a little surprised by how much of a "burden" the students apparently are considered. Honestly, I work pretty independently on med-surg. We are responsible for total care of progressively more patients beginning in the second semester, so after my RN does her assessment in the morning, s/he pretty much disappears for the rest of our rotation, only coming in to do procedures we hadn't yet been taught. Anything new, we did with our instructor. If I have questions, I look them up in my books or ask my instructor. I don't really even look for the nurse unless something significant happens (like the patient that had a stroke while I was assessing, or a change in vital signs.)

How is that a burden? Do other schools and hospitals work differently?