How long before NPs will be able to do surgery solo?

suzanne4, RN · Apr 14, 2006

Sorry, but I have worked OR for years, and I have never had the PA or the RNFA or the NP do most of the work, they are there strictly assisting.

And since your education lists other, what experience do you actually have in this area?

Papadoc · Apr 14, 2006

Fellow NPs, I think this is coming soon. I know many NPs who are first assists right now. They do 95% of the surgery while the MD does the other 5%
However, the NPs I know are well trained to where they could easily do the other 5% of the surgery that the MD does currently
I think its time for our PAC and lobbying organizations to get behind this effort. Doing surgery has been part of nursing practice for a long time now, its time for the world to recognize that we NPs are surgeons too and we can do it just as well as the MDs, if not better.
We need to move on this issue.

:lol2: :lol2: You've got to be kidding! Let's just send all these "no good

know-nothings" doctors on unemployment line :devil: Heck with the medical school, and postgraduate training, because NP is just like a doctor...only better :devil: :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle

You go girl! NP Power!!! :lol2:

Corvette Guy · Apr 14, 2006

Sorry, but I have worked OR for years, and I have never had the PA or the RNFA or the NP do most of the work, they are there strictly assisting.
And since your education lists other, what experience do you actually have in this area?

suzanne4, I agree with you! I have almost 9 yrs experience in the OR; 3 yrs CST & 6 yrs Scrub Nurse & Circulator.

A PA, RNFA, or NP are strictly there to assist and seriously doubt they could do same on solo case.

platon20 · Apr 14, 2006

I'm talking about rural hospitals that are small and not staffed well by MDs. The MD surgeons at my hospital routinely let their NPs do most of the surgery while they do on the 15 minutes that are most critical.

So yes, NPs do most of the surgery work here.

All I'm saying is that its not that much of a leap to allow the NPs to do the surgery solo. They can handle it, and the NPs in my hospital all have 20+ years of experience. They are ready to take over.

There is nothing that says that NPs cant be surgeons. We are just as good as the doctors are at it. Let them do some of hte major cases (i.e. double heart-lung transplant) and let the NPs do some of the more minor surgeries solo (lap choles, hernia repairs, etc). Are you suggesting that surgical NPs cant handle those?

lucky4timesover · Apr 14, 2006

I have to start by saying that I intend to get my NP after I am done with my ADN and BSN. That being said, I think one does cross a certain line with wanting NPs to perform surgery, even what you would describe as minor ones. Doctors do serve a purpose just like Nurses. In my way of thinking the two are not the same and one can't just jump into the shoes of the other. They go to school to learn what they need and we go to school to learn what we need. If one wants to be a surgeon then perhaps they should go on to medical school so they can have ALL the proper training. Hope this did not offend anyone as that was not my intention.

Sunny

sunnyjohn · Apr 14, 2006

Hmm, well add an additional year of training plus 2 years of residency on TOP of NP training and I think some NP's could do minor procedures.

3 yrs nursing school + 2 years NP school + 1 year NP surgery school +2 years residency = I might as well ahd gone to medical school. :lol2:

(just playing devils advocate, but if nurses cane do anethesia and function as safely and independently with that advanced degree as MD's, why can't a graduate program be developed for NP/surgeons?)

austin heart, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2006

suzanne4, I agree with you! I have almost 9 yrs experience in the OR; 3 yrs CST & 6 yrs Scrub Nurse & Circulator.
A PA, RNFA, or NP are strictly there to assist and seriously doubt they could do same on solo case.

Hey Corvette Guy! How are yall likeing your new place? Tell that wonderful wife of yours to e-mail me and let me know how she is doing and if she likes her new job, lol. Hope things are going great for the both of you!

austin heart, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2006

Fellow NPs, I think this is coming soon. I know many NPs who are first assists right now. They do 95% of the surgery while the MD does the other 5%
However, the NPs I know are well trained to where they could easily do the other 5% of the surgery that the MD does currently
I think its time for our PAC and lobbying organizations to get behind this effort. Doing surgery has been part of nursing practice for a long time now, its time for the world to recognize that we NPs are surgeons too and we can do it just as well as the MDs, if not better.
We need to move on this issue.

Hey and while they are at it they can have the RNs from the propofol thread come over and provide their anesthesia, lol.

Corvette Guy · Apr 14, 2006

Hmm, well add an additional year of training plus 2 years of residency on TOP of NP training and I think some NP's could do minor procedures.
3 yrs nursing school + 2 years NP school + 1 year NP surgery school +2 years residency = I might as well ahd gone to medical school.
(just playing devils advocate, but if nurses cane do anethesia and function as safely and independently with that advanced degree as MD's, why can't a graduate program be developed for NP/surgeons?)

Sunnyjohn - It has been my OR experience from the last civilian surgical environment I worked that the Anesthesiologist must be present at intubation & extubation. True, the CRNA 9 x's out of 10 does the intubation, yet I would not consider the CRNA in solo practice. I do know that in the military CRNAs are given a great deal more of autonomy, yet that is true in all aspects of military healthcare & related positions.

Platon20 - It is my understanding Surgeons go thru an extensive number of years of hands on surgical training before they start their private practice. I don't doubt that NPs after gaining some gowned & gloved surgical experience become very good in the surgical environment. Yet, for the most part I'd rather have a Board Certified Surgeon doing my Exploratory Lap, than an NP. However, more than willing to have an CRNA the entire case as long as an Anesthesiologist is nearby. You see, CRNAs go through an extensive MSN Anesthesia program. If NPs could attend an extensive Surgical Residency program, then when into private practive have a Surgeon in the OR available 99% of the time, then maybe your idea would be a Go.

:twocents:

Corvette Guy · Apr 14, 2006

Hey Corvette Guy! How are yall likeing your new place? Tell that wonderful wife of yours to e-mail me and let me know how she is doing and if she likes her new job, lol. Hope things are going great for the both of you!

austin heart - We absolutely love the South Puget Sound area. I'll remember to show Susan your post here. She started this week at Providence St. Peters. She will have to send you an email to give you the straight scoop.

jer_sd · Apr 14, 2006

well nps are doing more "minor procedures" such as lines, paracentesis, thoracentesis, nail removals, i+d, ect....

as for performing surgery in the uk they are starting a two year program to do hernias ect....

i think that over time nps could advance further in the us for procedures but there would have to be support from the nursing community, state law changes, and reimbursement for procedures.

this may be a good idea for starting residency or a fellowship.

but probably many years in the future unfortunately.

jeremy np, rnfa