How come we arent considered APN's?

[Heogog53]

Looking under the "specialty key" here at AN, I've noticed that APN's are only CRNA's, NP's, or Nurse-midwives. If we go to school so we can teach and help create the next generations of nursing students, why aren't we Advanced Practice Nurses? If we have to go and get an MSN or a PhD or the new title DNSc(or whatever it is), how come we aren't APNs, too?

[elkpark]

There have been discussions of this here before. The term "advanced practice" has always referred to advanced clinical practice, above and beyond the generalist RN scope of practice, which is why it has been reserved for the four "advanced practice" roles of CRNA, CNS, CNM, and NP. It's not about how much education one has, it's about the clinical role.

[Heogog53]

Hmmm. I understand a part of that, however, don't nursing educators and nursing faculty do clinical care as well as teach in the class room? My nursing school instructors most certainly taught us clinical skills and were on the floor to make sure that we did our assignments correctly.

The nurse educators who taught my Critical Care course spent two months with us in the classroom and then the next four months with us in class and on the floor. The same was true of my OR training program.

Most of my nursing instructors worked clinically on the side, as well, to make sure that they were up to date on all sorts of things.....

So if nurse educators aren't clinical instructors all the time, then they can't be APN's. Seems rather sad to me....almost like a neither fish nor fowl argument.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Hmmm. I understand a part of that, however, don't nursing educators and nursing faculty do clinical care as well as teach in the class room?

Can one make medical diagnoses and prescribe? If not, one is a straight RN. The teaching is important but it does not confer an advanced clinical scope.

[elkpark]

Hmmm. I understand a part of that, however, don't nursing educators and nursing faculty do clinical care as well as teach in the class room? My nursing school instructors most certainly taught us clinical skills and were on the floor to make sure that we did our assignments correctly.

The nurse educators who taught my Critical Care course spent two months with us in the classroom and then the next four months with us in class and on the floor. The same was true of my OR training program.

Most of my nursing instructors worked clinically on the side, as well, to make sure that they were up to date on all sorts of things.....

So if nurse educators aren't clinical instructors all the time, then they can't be APN's. Seems rather sad to me....almost like a neither fish nor fowl argument.

Can one make medical diagnoses and prescribe? If not, one is a straight RN. The teaching is important but it does not confer an advanced clinical scope.

Exactly -- most clinical teaching is not advanced clinical practice. Teaching someone clinical practice within the generalist RN scope of practice is not advanced practice -- it's generalist RN practice.

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

Here is a blog I wrote on this very subject - interesting discussion of the topic: https://allnurses.com/nursing-blogs/nurse-educator-role-401485.html

[elkpark]

Here is a blog I wrote on this very subject - interesting discussion of the topic: https://allnurses.com/nursing-blogs/nurse-educator-role-401485.html

Thank you for posting that -- I knew we had discussed this at least once before, but it was too much trouble for me to go looking for earlier threads.

[Heogog53]

Vicky, thank you for that link. There are indeed a plethora of issues surrounding being an APN that I wasn't aware of. What I do know is that Master's prepared nurses ought to be recognized as Advanced Practice Nurses, because they have gotten an ADVANCED DEGREE. I think nurse educators of all levels should be recognized for what they do, whether they teach CNA's, MA's, LPN's, BSN's or----even the few Diploma nurse programs that still exist.

I do think that it's weird that the local university is looking for a BSN prepared nurse as a clinical educator, but the local ECPI and community colleges are looking for MSN's OR MD's to teach nurse's aides or medical assistants. Strikes me as backwards. What do you think?

Anyway, thank you for the informative thread. My nursing instructors worked hard at preparing us to be not just competent nurses, but intellectually curious and aware nurses.....at a Diploma program.....

[elkpark]

Vicky, thank you for that link. There are indeed a plethora of issues surrounding being an APN that I wasn't aware of. What I do know is that Master's prepared nurses ought to be recognized as Advanced Practice Nurses, because they have gotten an ADVANCED DEGREE.

Again, not to be argumentative or disrespectful, but it's about advanced practice, not an advanced degree. There are lots of graduate degree concentrations in nursing that don't make you an advanced practice nurse.

BTW, I am a diploma grad also, and got a much better nursing education in my diploma program than I did in the BSN completion program I completed later on (to be able to go to grad school).

[Heogog53]

Let me apologize. It's been a long day and while I get the point, I think I've become a victim of the OH-MY-GOD-I-HAVE-TO-BE-CERTIFIED- IN AT- LEAST-3-THINGS -TO FEEL-IMPORTANT......syndrome....sorry.

Actually, I do think that it's getting pretty tough to get a job as a nurse these days. All the advertisements around here read

RN wanted

graduation from an accredited school, an active nursing license and a year of experience----and then go into the job requirements...which then state the following;

RN wanted

-must have BSN

-must have at least 2 years of experience in xyz

-must be certified in _______ or_______

-blaah blaah blaah

I understand the differentiation between the APNs- and there are apparently much I am not the slightest bit aware of, in terms of the requirements to legally qualify as such.

One last comment. After I graduated from my Diploma Program(and yes, they were wonderful weren't they?), if circumstances had gone my way, after my 2 years in CCU, I could have gotten a one year Certificate in Anesthesia---just imagine, without my BA, I could have done a total of four years of education, two years of critical care experience- and ended up as a grandfathered APN. Whoosh!

I recognize that for me to have fulfilled my dream of becoming a CRNA, I'd have had to go back to school to finish a BSN as well as more time to take all the old science courses again- and some new ones, too, before even attempting to get into school.....oh yah, I forgot and two years of critical care experience. Sigh. Real life does odd things to one's dreams.

Thanks for being polite and it's obvious I need to go to bed.

Helga

[Teresag_CNS]

Can one make medical diagnoses and prescribe? If not, one is a straight RN. The teaching is important but it does not confer an advanced clinical scope.

Actually, that's not quite true. Clinical nurse specialists do not make medical diagnoses and only a few prescribe, but we are APNs. I chose to be a CNS specifically because I didn't want to be a "minor physician," which I do not think is the right way to advance in one's nursing career. Practicing medicine is not practicing nursing.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Actually, that's not quite true. Clinical nurse specialists do not make medical diagnoses and only a few prescribe, but we are APNs. I chose to be a CNS specifically because I didn't want to be a "minor physician," which I do not think is the right way to advance in one's nursing career. Practicing medicine is not practicing nursing.

Thanks. I was thinking more of nurse practitioners, but you certainly make a valid point.