Everything leads to believe that new nurses are needed. The aging population, the baby boomers, the aging nurses working, longer lives lived, more chronic diseases present etc....
My dilemma and question is, how can hospitals and health care facilities afford not to hire newly graduated nurses. They should be getting the manpower from somewhere. Are they relying only on overworking the experienced staff only. If they rely only on experienced nurses they are using a constant amount of people for a growing population of people with diseases.
This is what I do not understand, either the hospitals are using workers from some obscure source that I am not aware of or there is a mystery going on here.
Something that hasn't been mentioned but has been going on for more then a few years is the transferring of traditional Nursing duties to much lower paid ancillary staff. I've noticed a trend in Hospitals ( I worked in) to create new Job Titles for unlicensed staff in Dialysis (Hemodialysis Tech) Anethesiology Techs, Telemetry Techs, Medication Techs, IV Techs. I have performed 4 out of 5 of these aforementioned duties in the Hospitals when I started in Nursing over 25 years ago, yet today if I were to return to Hospital Staffing, they would be performed by Lower (much) paid Techs. That's a lot of work off the Books so the need for increased Nursing Staff is not there as it used to be. Not saying this is happening in your Hospital but I have noticed it the places where I used to work. Friends keep me up to date as I have been away from Hosp staffing for 10 years and only do Home Health Visits presently.
Unfortunately these Nursing Schools keep hammering home the same old Kool Aid "There's a Huge Shortage, we need More Nurses" so the HS students or layed off workers in need of a New Career drinks the Kool Aid the Nursing Schools are putting out. What a Surprise it must be to get half way thru school to find out there isn't a Nursing shortage. These Nursing schools should be taken to task for leading these Students on with Empty Pie in the Sky Promises of all these oppurtunities. The Schools of course need to prolong this Nursing Shortage Myth to justify their own existence and Jobs. This Myth has been building for years (like our real estate Bubble of 2006 that crashed) ad now its deflating and sadly, taking hese new Grads down as well.
Caveat Emptor;)
If UAPs are stealing bacon off RN's plates just whose fault is that? How much of the scope of a MD's practice do you see being peeled off and given to those with less education/training? Say what you want about physicans, but when push comes to shove they move in lock step to protect their flanks.
Then again it takes almost over ten years to become a medical doctor, with no short cuts. OTHO one can become a RN in two, three, or four years; and many UAP courses run six months to two years. So from a hospital's point of view why not take a person *trained* at the low end of what it takes to become a nurse and give them some extra work, but much less pay than the former. I mean it's not like those pesky nurses will mind, they are always complaining about being over worked anyway.
What has been said in this discussion is true. However, its important to keep in mind that this economy is cyclical. Also, I don't think most people realized just how detrimental and massive the unemployment would reach (not just nursing). So while the schools continue to cite "nursing shortage", there was a shortage until the economy went sour. More importantly, its a business, and these schools have no intention of graduating everyone in these programs anyway.
From about 2000 up until 2007, there were all kinds of nursing jobs to be had. It has been these last 2 and a half years where the market has been slim. On a positive note, 2 of my friends mentioned recently that more positions are coming available where they are. Hopefully, we might see a slight improvement this year.
If UAPs are stealing bacon off RN's plates just whose fault is that? How much of the scope of a MD's practice do you see being peeled off and given to those with less education/training? Say what you want about physicans, but when push comes to shove they move in lock step to protect their flanks.
Excellent point. Physicians absolutely protect their profession and are readying themselves against the trend of doctorate prepared nurses - they are calling for more education and residencies for these nurses. Also, doctors are much less likely than nurses to throw their colleagues under the bus.
unfortunately these nursing schools keep hammering home the same old kool aid "there's a huge shortage, we need more nurses" so the hs students or layed off workers in need of a new career drinks the kool aid the nursing schools are putting out. what a surprise it must be to get half way thru school to find out there isn't a nursing shortage. these nursing schools should be taken to task for leading these students on with empty pie in the sky promises of all these oppurtunities. the schools of course need to prolong this nursing shortage myth to justify their own existence and jobs. this myth has been building for years (like our real estate bubble of 2006 that crashed) ad now its deflating and sadly, taking hese new grads down as well.
caveat emptor;)
well said!!!!! the nursing bubble is so much like the real estate bubble and will likely be affecting all nurses over the coming years!
i just graduated in june '10 from an adn program and was fed the "nursing shortage myth" throughout school. luckily, i am one of about 7 students (out of 68) accepted in a new grad program. some of the remaining students have managed to get jobs in home health or convalescent hospitals but are so stressed out because they must practice with no floor training and/or no experienced nurses present to ask questions. they are putting their patients and license at risk. the other 50% of our class are simply unemployed.
i believe that the nursing schools should consider adjusting the clinical training to allow for more experience on specific floors instead of constantly reassigning students to different floors. keeping a student on the same floor longer would save time from repeated new floor orientation and give the students more actual floor time and a chance to network with nurses and floor managers for a future job. in my case, i was moved around so much that it was nearly impossible to establish a relationship with nurses/managers or have the opportunity to show them "what a great nurse i could be".
although it is not the responsiblity of the teachers to find us employment, i believe they should give us some tips or opportunities to break into this highly competitive field. many of the younger students have no clue on how to proceed at this point. our teachers gave us few clues on what to expect or suggestions on how to proceed in a nursing job search. i even recall them saying several times that your grade did not matter (for employment) as long as you passed; unfortunately, we discovered that one of the top new grad programs in my area require a 3.0 grade in nursing school (pre-reqs not inclusive).
in addressing the hospital's training budget, i know of one hospital that makes the new grad sign a 2 year contract ... but instead of getting a bonus for staying, the new grad will have to pay a fine if they leave before their contract is up (to recover a small portion of the cost of training). this may not sound great to those of us who were expecting a sign-on bonus (ha, those days are over!), but helpful to those who cannot find a new-grad training position in the current economic situation. even though it is a negative incentive for the employee, i think it's fair to the hospital who is paying for your new grad training.
Retired in '03 after 18 years on a step down cardio/thoracic floor. Reentered the field in '06 as an Admissions Nurse. Retired again in '10 when that and another position were fazed out due to the downward trend in the economy. Having tried a 3rd position I no longer felt I could give the same level of comfort and quality care at the bedside that I'd given and totally enjoyed for so many years.
Prior to my retiring in '03 there was already a demand for change in health care. The local hospitals were having to either take debilitating financial losses or selling to BIG BUSINESS CONGLOMERATES. They sold. Job requirements took on whole different meanings.....doctors, nurses, aides, resource and management people were expected to work within a more time constrained, technical and computerized environment. We did. It worked.
I'm guessing it still "works," I'm just not sure for whom it works. Recently I went for a test and found myself in a one-man department which was sterile, cold and honestly didn't leave me with warm feelings. None of this reflected,however, on the person performing the test or his apparent level of knowlege. What more did I want, you ask. Nothing, I suppose, if that's ALL I can expect for my future health care needs. I recall thinking at the time that I hoped the young man didn't go home too tired physically and mentally because of the added time pressures placed on him. Also, I wondered, if he'd met his quota for the day.
Do you see where I'm going with my opinion here......bigger profits can only come with higher costs and higher numbers. Numbers? Believe me after seeing the speed with which my test was performed that day, I think the
word implies to the number of patients, and definitely NOT to the number of staff. So, I get the impression that any hiring done in the last 5-10 years is more to REPLACE those quitting or moving to greener pastures, and definitely NOT to fill new positions!
Also, networking includes more than preceptors. Nursing instructors, friends, nursing associations. Actually, the position I took was through a good friend I made right here on allnurses! :)
While in school, in addition to getting a recommendation from my Preceptor:
- I got an unsolicited recommendation from one of the charge nurses, and another one who fought to get me my interview.
- I also participated as a student member of two instructor tenure committees
- Participated as a student member of the Nursing Curriculum Committee
- Worked at the school itself under two different bosses
So I had plenty of recommendations to go around. If using networking as a main source of recommendations, the ADN student can't just be 'good', s/he has to stand out from all the rest. I just started in November. The next residency slot didn't open till next Feb. They took an open staff position and turned it into a (much more expensive) residency program just for me.
This is not about bragging. This is me trying to give hope, and a vector, to students, especially ADN students. Kick ass and take names!
My hospital still hires new grads ... but we are VERY selective about it.
Same in my area (Seattle-Tacoma metro area). They were burned badly not too long ago by recent grads who were hired from out-of-state. Not only are they now very selective about the individual new grad, but they tend to hire only those with close ties to the local area (if what everyone is telling me is true, and I have no reason to doubt them).
In addition to this, many hospitals were starting to balk at hiring new grads even before the economy tanked -- I had conversations about this with nursing administration folks all over my state when I worked as a hospital surveyor for my state several years ago, and heard the same thing all over my state, in hospitals large and small: Nursing administrators in hospitals feel like a) new grads are not at all well-prepared to enter practice, and they are tired of (from their perspective) having to invest a ot of time and $$$ in teaching new grads most of what they need to know to function on a nursing unit, stuff that the hospitals feel (rightly or wrongly) they should have learned in nursing school, and b) new grad turnover is at the highest point it's ever been -- hospitals hire new grads, invest the aforementioned significant amount of time and $$$ in orienting them, and then those people often leave that facility long before they become an asset rather than a financial liability. A lot of hospitals feel they have been "burned" by new grads and have responded by becoming a lot more hesitant about hiring them, totally apart from the current economic conditions -- the economy is just exacerbating the existing problem.
I'm not saying this as a criticism of any particular individual (esp. anyone posting here) -- just sharing what I've heard from nursing administrators in lots of hospitals in my state. There were also quite a few threads here about how hospitals in many larger cities across the US were putting up "new grads need not apply" statements on their job posting websites even before the economy tanked.
I'm not sure that is a situation that is going to change just because the economy improves -- I think it's a larger issue than "just" the current economic conditions.
You hit the nail right on the head.
New grads ARE woefully unprepared for the current work environment, and it costs a heck of alot of time and money to get them up to speed. On the other hand, SOME hospitals LIKE to hire new grads as they consider them more pliable (or gullible) to whatever insane care bundles or other rote nursing systems they want to put into place.
And many posters are corrrect to assume that there WILL be a critical RN shortage in about 5 years. It's happened before. The economy WILL improve, the non-emergent surgeries wil return and the staffing office will be desperate.
What more did I want, you ask. Nothing, I suppose, if that's ALL I can expect for my future health care needs.
Thank you. Why have we come to expect warm fuzzies every time we encounter the healthcare business? Honestly, even though the person performing the test may be smiling, it is doubtful he actually cares personally about you. You are the customer of the moment, be gone after you are done! Why can't people accept profiecient testing/care management without having to become someone's BFF?
Same in my area (Seattle-Tacoma metro area). They were burned badly not too long ago by recent grads who were hired from out-of-state. Not only are they now very selective about the individual new grad, but they tend to hire only those with close ties to the local area (if what everyone is telling me is true, and I have no reason to doubt them).
DC, ED NOC RN ADN
Abbreviations R Us :)
That's true for my hospital, too. We are very hesitant to hire a nurse who doesn't have close ties to the area -- and/or some other reason for living here other than this job.
I hope people looking for jobs and considering relocating will think about this. They are much more likely to get hired if they can "market themselves" as someone who has ties to the area and who is likely to stay in that geographic area for a long time -- and not just as someone who is "willing to move anywhere for a job." People just looking for a job are not attractive applicants as they are likely to leave the job as soon as the economy improves and/or they get enough experience (at the employer's expense) to get a job where they really want to live live long-term.
So ... for those of you considering relocation ... focus on areas where you have friends or family that you can use as a reason for wanting to move to that town. Or say that your boyfriend lives there ... or is interviewing for a job there ... etc. so that you appear to be someone looking to put down roots in that town and preparing to live there long term. Nobody wants to hire someone who is only looking for short-term job -- well, few employers anyway.
I'm dealing with that issue now as I am hiring student externs. I am getting inquiries from all over the country -- most of whom do not have a reasonable answer to the question, "Why should my hospital invest its money in you when we have plenty of students in our local region who intend to live here after graduation?"
People relocate for various reasons, though. Sometimes you need a change of pace, or want to experience new things. This doesn't always mean that the person will just up and leave. I am relocating, and the people who hired me have been very supportive and kind. Thankfully, there are people out there like this. I also feel that there is a fair amount of stereotyping of new grads, which is unfortunate.
DoGoodThenGo
4,133 Posts
If UAPs are stealing bacon off RN's plates just whose fault is that? How much of the scope of a MD's practice do you see being peeled off and given to those with less education/training? Say what you want about physicans, but when push comes to shove they move in lock step to protect their flanks.
Then again it takes almost over ten years to become a medical doctor, with no short cuts. OTHO one can become a RN in two, three, or four years; and many UAP courses run six months to two years. So from a hospital's point of view why not take a person *trained* at the low end of what it takes to become a nurse and give them some extra work, but much less pay than the former. I mean it's not like those pesky nurses will mind, they are always complaining about being over worked anyway.