Hospital figures break time out of pay?

onyx77 · May 10, 2008

I always thought that as long as you are punched in - you get paid. I do not get paid for my 30min lunch break, but we have to punch out for it.

HonestRN · May 10, 2008

At my current hospital the 30 minute lunch break is automatically deducted. If you don't take your 30 minute lunch you must fill out a time correction slip if you want to get paid. I have been "warned" by NM that I have to take a lunch unless I have a compelling reason not to. Most nurses on my unit don't take lunch (no time to) and have given up and just don't get paid. I not only continue to fill in my time correction slips but make copies of them for my personal records. Imagine the money this hospital is making on all the nurses who work through their unpaid lunch breaks!! My last hospital, a magnet hospital, trusted us to punch out for lunch.

HonestRN · May 10, 2008

Your hospital probably has a form to fill in to get paid when you don't get your break. If you still don't get paid you can notify your state EOE office. Only you can decide if it is worth the fight. Many nurses on my floor rather than fight or fill in their forms will instead dawdle after work and run the clock. I would rather fill in the slip, challenge the hospital if they make an issue out of it than stay any longer than I absolutely have to.

Jolie, BSN · May 10, 2008

It is my understanding that federal labor law requires a 15 minute paid break for every 4 hours worked. That amounts to 45 minutes in a 12 hour shift. If you take more than 45 minutes, your employer can deduct that time from your pay, which many employers do if you have a custom of taking a 15 minute break plus an hour lunch in 12 hours.

On the other hand, if you get less than 45 minutes of break time in a 12 hour shift, there must legally be a mechanism for you to notify your supervisor so that you are paid for that time. This may involve clocking in and out for breaks so your break time is documented, or having a supervisor sign your time sheet to indicate that break time was not taken due to high workload.

HonestRN · May 10, 2008

It is my understanding that federal labor law requires a 15 minute paid break for every 4 hours worked.

That is a common misunderstanding. From the US Dept of Labor:

"Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks work-time that must be paid."

"Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable."

Bona fide meal periods mean you are not charting or performing work related tasks of any kind and are uninterrupted.

Many states do not legally mandate break or lunch periods. My state does not. Check your own state laws.

Now if your employer is automatically deducting a lunch break that you are unable to take (as most nurses) then they have to compensate you. Period.

HeyLush3 · May 11, 2008

That is a common misunderstanding. From the US Dept of Labor:
"Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks work-time that must be paid."
"Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable."
Bona fide meal periods mean you are not charting or performing work related tasks of any kind and are uninterrupted.
Many states do not legally mandate break or lunch periods. My state does not. Check your own state laws.
Now if your employer is automatically deducting a lunch break that you are unable to take (as most nurses) then they have to compensate you. Period.

Right, but at the same time many states have stiffer laws on breaks/meals than what the federal law requires :wink2:

HonestRN · May 11, 2008

From: http://employeeissues.com/breaks_meals.htm

"The 21 states listed below have laws that include some sort of provisions for work breaks. Of the 21 at this writing, only 19 specifically require a rest or meal break for adults, while only 7 specifically require a rest break in addition to a meal break for adults. Vermont nonspecifically requires only "reasonable opportunities to eat and use toilet facilities." Wisconsin requires meal breaks only for workers under 18 and simply recommends them for 18 and over.

State law provisions for work breaks and meals mentioned on this page might not apply to all employees in a particular state. Click a state below for specifics.

Now it doesn't matter if your state has laws mandating lunch breaks, what DOES matter is if they are deducting the break when the employee DOES NOT get it. Every state requires that you get paid for all time worked. Period.

NurseCherlove · May 11, 2008

Every state requires that you get paid for all time worked. Period.

Yeah, well, not to stray from the topic here, but what really gets my goat is being told by the NM that overtime is prohibited unless first approved by a charge nurse. So, basically, if you are busy all shift and don't have time to chart until the end, I guess just do your charting illegally off the clock!! And of course if this is a fairly common occurence...well then, you must just be a poor time manager.

Gimme a break! :angryfire

bollweevil · May 11, 2008

That is a common misunderstanding. From the US Dept of Labor:
"Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks work-time that must be paid."
"Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable."
Bona fide meal periods mean you are not charting or performing work related tasks of any kind and are uninterrupted.
Many states do not legally mandate break or lunch periods. My state does not. Check your own state laws.
Now if your employer is automatically deducting a lunch break that you are unable to take (as most nurses) then they have to compensate you. Period.

The trouble is that the nurse has to have the courage to speak up and fill out the time correction slip or otherwise make it known that she wishes to not be workiing for free for 30 minutes every day. Most nurses figure it is too painful to get management to pay, they fear angering their bosses, they don't know the law.

For OP: check your state's laws first. It's on the web at DOL (department of labor) I think. That's federal but it refers you to your state's site. Or just go to your state's DOL website. Then do what it says. Part of it is that you must inform your supervisor daily that you need a break and ask her to provide relief for you - either her or another nurse whom she can appoint. Be prepared for a lot of grief if you take this route. Better to try to get a coworker to buddy with you and you 2 cover each other's patients for the half hour meal break. Barring that, just inform your Supervisor that you cannot get a 30 minute uninterrupted break that is free of work duties and you need her written approval. Good luck getting it.

Best is to just take your meal break. You need it in 12 hours.

What is your state's law about rest breaks? What is your employer's policy on these? Do these jive? (state and employer) Are you union? Good luck. I hope you stand firm and make them give you what is yours - the 30 minute meal break, that is. Either they give you relief so you can break or they pay you for the 1/2 hour they are charging you for a break you are not getting.

I have stopped donating to my church because I figured I donate all my break times at work and I count that as charity. Too bad I can't deduct it from my tax return.

bollweevil · May 11, 2008

From: http://employeeissues.com/breaks_meals.htm
"The 21 states listed below have laws that include some sort of provisions for work breaks. Of the 21 at this writing, only 19 specifically require a rest or meal break for adults, while only 7 specifically require a rest break in addition to a meal break for adults. Vermont nonspecifically requires only "reasonable opportunities to eat and use toilet facilities." Wisconsin requires meal breaks only for workers under 18 and simply recommends them for 18 and over.
State law provisions for work breaks and meals mentioned on this page might not apply to all employees in a particular state. Click a state below for specifics.
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Illinois
Kentucky
Maine
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New York
North Dakota
Oregon
Rhode Island
Tennessee
Vermont
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Now it doesn't matter if your state has laws mandating lunch breaks, what DOES matter is if they are deducting the break when the employee DOES NOT get it. Every state requires that you get paid for all time worked. Period.

I just looked at the site you link to above. It is most interesting. It is also so very sad that anyone could possibly think it is morally right or even good business sense for those motivated by $$ and not by more humanitrian concepts to NOT see to it that one's employees are able to use a toilet, take in some nourishment, rehydrate themselves, and even make a necessary phone call once in a while on a break. With kids in day care, cars in the shop, and so many, many other concerns on workers' minds, I think that wise if the employer who sees to it that employees get to deal with vital personal issue. Yes, I know this can easily get out of hand and honorable employees must regulate themselves to not abuse this freedom. I guess I'm thinking that most workers will bend over backwards for a decent, reasonable, fair boss. I know that isn't necessarily so but I believe in fairy godmothers, too. :saint: :lol2:

agent66 · May 11, 2008

It is my understanding that federal labor law requires a 15 minute paid break for every 4 hours worked. That amounts to 45 minutes in a 12 hour shift. If you take more than 45 minutes, your employer can deduct that time from your pay, which many employers do if you have a custom of taking a 15 minute break plus an hour lunch in 12 hours.
On the other hand, if you get less than 45 minutes of break time in a 12 hour shift, there must legally be a mechanism for you to notify your supervisor so that you are paid for that time. This may involve clocking in and out for breaks so your break time is documented, or having a supervisor sign your time sheet to indicate that break time was not taken due to high workload.

At our hospital for a twelve hour shift we get 45minutes paid and 45 minutes unpaid as per the union contract. 15minutes coffee , 30min lunch and 15 minute mid afternoon , 30 minute supper. The afternoon break never a consideration so lumped into a 45 minute supperbreak. Our difficulty comes when we miss supper break and try to sign in for overtime since it was missed, management argues that it is unpaid and therefore do not have to pay OT on it. So basically the issue goes to the fact that you have to take your break and stay after hours to finish the work, which of course no one is going to do right? I think in the long run it all works out anyways for there are days we have certainly taken longer than 15 minutes for coffee and 30 for lunch. Nights however when it is so busy that there is no break at all, i don't hesitate to sign in for the OT.