Help to avoid PHMP

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Has anyone gone to an inpatient facility in PA for a 'second opinion' in order to avoid being forced into the PHMP program? Please help if you have any advice. Thank you. 

ADN244 said:

Yes - one from 6 years ago. 

You're going to get a monitoring agreement.  I'm so sorry.  Do what they tell you no matter how ridiculous and you'll keep your license or find another career.  I have less than a year left of a 3 year monitoring agreement. I don't have a SUD.  The meetings we can do on zoom.  I do laundry and other tasks and just note the required information for the meetings.  I meet with their providers and smile and answer the questions.  I don't argue.  I check in daily.  I'm super careful about what I consume. 

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Always get second opinion from a facility that isn't "approved" by the BON.  There are countless stories on this website and around the country where the BON's "approved" SUD eval facility makes up a diagnosis or recommends monitoring and the nurse gets an outside facility that supposably isn't "approved" by the BON, and that facility says the nurse has no problem.  The nurse gets a lawyer and the nurse usually wins as the lawyer gets it to an admin law judge that allows the second evidence of the other facility regardless of what the BON "approves."  At the very least, it can turn a 5 year monitoring agreement into a 3 year agreement or a 3 year agreement into 2 years, etc.

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Thank you!! I already have 2 evaluations that I used to get my RN license from another state that stated I did not have a substance disorder diagnosis. Unfortunately, for PA, they said they don't even look at outside evaluations. 

I'm hoping that my second evaluation with a negative alcohol test will help. I haven't touched alcohol in 3 months. 

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ADN244 said:

Thank you!! I already have 2 evaluations that I used to get my RN license from another state that stated I did not have a substance disorder diagnosis. Unfortunately, for PA, they said they don't even look at outside evaluations. 

I'm hoping that my second evaluation with a negative alcohol test will help. I haven't touched alcohol in 3 months. 

You are going to need an evaluation that has occurred AFTER the event and within the last 3 months for it to have weight.  If eval was 6 months or 1 year ago, it's not going to have as much weight.  It's not about whether PA "looks at outside evaluations."  The BON's ALWAYS say they don't look at outside evals and this is what prevents nurses from going to get an outside evaluation.  In the hands of an attorney, the attorney takes that outside eval and discusses with the BON and if the BON then refuses, the attorney takes the case to an administrative law judge who pretty much always allows the outside evaluation as evidence and many nurses get off the hook this way.  It's expensive, but it works.  The old classic statement and trick which is an attempt to dissuade nurses from getting an outside eval has been used by every BON for over 2 decades.  Don't fall for it.  Get your own outside eval.

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Both of the evaluations were after the event, but they were a couple years back. 

I am getting an inpatient, more strict, evaluation done soon. It was a facility recommended by the BON (and the only facility they said they will accept opinions from). Isn't it the BON who has the final say? Do you know of any lawyers in PA who help with this? Because after looking at my case, my lawyer told me my best case is to go to this inpatient evaluation, get a negative test to prove I have not been drinking for the past 3 months, and hope that they let me off the hook. But he did not mention getting another evaluation done because after speaking with my case manager, he said that this would be the only option. 

Do you know of nurses who got an evaluation that said 'mild disorder' but they got an evaluation done on their own and got off the hook from the monitoring program?  Does an administrative law judge override the BON? 

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ADN244 said:

Both of the evaluations were after the event, but they were a couple years back. 

I am getting an inpatient, more strict, evaluation done soon. It was a facility recommended by the BON (and the only facility they said they will accept opinions from). Isn't it the BON who has the final say? Do you know of any lawyers in PA who help with this? Because after looking at my case, my lawyer told me my best case is to go to this inpatient evaluation, get a negative test to prove I have not been drinking for the past 3 months, and hope that they let me off the hook. But he did not mention getting another evaluation done because after speaking with my case manager, he said that this would be the only option. 

Do you know of nurses who got an evaluation that said 'mild disorder' but they got an evaluation done on their own and got off the hook from the monitoring program?  Does an administrative law judge override the BON? 

That eval is too old.  It will not work.  Of course the facility you are having the evaluation from is "recommended by the BON."  LOL.  They see dollar signs coming in and when that facility finds an SUD or recommends monitoring, the BON is about to get paid over the next 5 years and that facility will be "thanked" by the BON with another nurse coming in the next day, then the next day, and then the next day.  The BON absolutely does NOT have the final say so.  They want you to believe that.  BON's are regulated by law by state legislatures which are subject to state executive legal codes which are subject to....JUDGES.   

Example-Nurse gets BON approved eval.  The eval place finds an SUD and/or recommends 3 or 4 or 5 years of monitoring.  The nurse calls their case manager and the BON to ask if she can get another eval from a non-approved BON facility.  Both say no.  Both are also NOT your friends, no matter how nice they are, they are not your friends.  The nurse then gets an outside eval anyway and does it herself and the facility says the Nurse has no issue and doesn't need monitoring.  The nurse calls the BON and Case Manager again and tells them, "I have my own eval from another facility and they say I have no problem."  The BON and Case Manager says, "we don't care because we don't approve those."  The nurse gets an attorney.  The attorney contacts the BON and says he or she has evidence that the nurse does NOT need monitoring.  The BON then does 1 of 2 things.  They make a deal which decreases the monitoring agreement time (for example, from 5 years to 3 years is one example) or they double down and tell the attorney they don't accept outside evals.  The attorney then requests a hearing with a court of law which is overseen by an Administrative Law Judge.  The Judge nearly ALWAYS allows the second eval that the nurse got on her own to be heard as evidence and the BON then does one of two things.  They completely back off and agree to no monitoring, or they greatly reduce the monitoring (for example, what would have been 5 years is now only 1 or 2 years or what would have been 3 years is now down to 1).  

The above scenario has played out countless times over the last 20 years.  The judge has the final say so, not the BON.  The key is.....you have to have an attorney to get your case to reach him or her.  It's the oldest trick by BON's in the country and 9 out of 10 nurses fall for it every time.  That is, the old "we don't accept outside evals."  That's great, but in the end, a judge decides what is accepted or not accepted if you can get an attorney to reach that level of a judge.

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Wow thank you so much! I didn't even know this was an option. Do you know of any lawyers who have done this in PA? 

It's weird that the lawyer I got did not even tell me about this...

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ADN244 said:

Wow thank you so much! I didn't even know this was an option. Do you know of any lawyers who have done this in PA? 

It's weird that the lawyer I got did not even tell me about this...

Google "List of Nurse Attorneys in PA" and you will see an AI generated list that gives contact info for Attorney's that are also Nurses.  There is a huge difference in a lawyer that says, "I have experience working with the BON's and legal issues with nurses," compared to......."I am an RN, and I am also an Attorney and I know the BON and BON issues inside and out."  Many, many attorneys will advertise that they "work with BON's and have experience with BON's and legal issues."  These type of attorney's aren't anywhere close to the level of expertise as an attorney who also has her or his undergrad degree before law school in nursing and is also an RN.  Choose a Nurse Lawyer.

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Thank you so much!! I see that you are a legal nurse consultant...do you by chance have any suggests for anyone I can talk to in PA? 

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ADN244 said:

Wow thank you so much! I didn't even know this was an option. Do you know of any lawyers who have done this in PA? 

It's weird that the lawyer I got did not even tell me about this...

Most nurses don't know it's an option and the BON's want to gladly keep it that way and so do monitoring programs.  If every nurse knew this was an option, BON's and Monitoring Programs (of which both are corrupt) would make a lot Less money.  If you get an outside eval that says you don't have an SUD and that eval is recent (within or around the same time that you get the "Board Approved, LOL eval" and you get a Nurse Attorney, you will win.  The odds of you doing anytime in monitoring are low and the odds of you doing more than one year of monitoring (if you get monitoring) are low.  

The nurses who beat the BON and get no monitoring or get a very reduced monitoring time (only a year or so) almost always have one thing in common.  They got a second eval from a Non Board Approved Facility and got the results of that eval into the hands of an attorney.  Those are the nurses that win.  

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ADN244 said:

Thank you so much!! I see that you are a legal nurse consultant...do you by chance have any suggests for anyone I can talk to in PA? 

I don't know anyone in PA.  I also don't perform any services on here because solicitation is not allowed.  I don't do private messages or anything like that.  I'm just trying to help.  If you find an attorney in PA that is also an RN (and there are many of them) easily searched online and all of them know what they are doing if they have RN beside their name, and you get an outside eval that says you don't have an SUD, your chances of winning skyrocket. 

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Wow - thank you so so much!! This is really helpful. Much appreciated. 

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