heavy lifting

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 7, 2008

You know I have to laugh is it my imagination but isn't there a smaller ratio of men to women in nursing?? So who moves/lifts/manual handles pts when you big strong boys aren't around?

I do think men are asked to help lift if they are on the floor and it is needed but in reality as a female nurse I have been asked to assist in 1000's and 1000's of pt's manual handling requirements in 18 years + of nursing.

I do however think when moving a pt with a male person then it is a more successful lift, than a 5ft -100lb woman who is not skillful. Men do tend to have grown up lifting more than women, And tend to do in normal everyday life.

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 7, 2008

update:
so im in my second semester of nursing skool now, i gotta say its soooo easy!!!!! :)
however, i have YET to see any nurse during my clinicals do any type of "cna" lifting
and i have had clinical on a tele unit as well as a med surg unit

Thanks for the update I am glad your experience is better than your fears.

I have always found in nursing what I fear most is not the thing I have the problem with LOL.

However I do feel the Rn's you have worked with must have not pulled their weight on the lifting aspect I do feel it is very unfair to rely on CNA's to do all the lifting. They have backs too and can be less skillful. What also worries me is that you dont know how well a pt is being moved and if it compromises them in any way. For example moving a pt who has a hemiplegia and is moved by using the affect side incorrectly-RN's have an obligation to their pts to ensure that the CNA's are educated correctly and we can have a positive effect on this by participating and educating

nads786 · Feb 7, 2008

Thanks for the update I am glad your experience is better than your fears.
I have always found in nursing what I fear most is not the thing I have the problem with LOL.
However I do feel the Rn's you have worked with must have not pulled their weight on the lifting aspect I do feel it is very unfair to rely on CNA's to do all the lifting. They have backs too and can be less skillful. What also worries me is that you dont know how well a pt is being moved and if it compromises them in any way. For example moving a pt who has a hemiplegia and is moved by using the affect side incorrectly-RN's have an obligation to their pts to ensure that the CNA's are educated correctly and we can have a positive effect on this by participating and educating

ya i agree with you guyz 100%, i have a surgical floor rotation in 8 weeks so maybe i will see the change then

CEFHMF · Feb 19, 2008

Get used to lifting in normal heathcare setting.My guess is 1/4 of pts. are >300?It's ok for the the assignment maker(usually female)to give you the larger pts.You'll be freq.relied upon to help get obese pts.back to bed,help ''boost''in bed etc.Just the way it is.Refuse?,and possibly be subject to negative feedback.It's o.k. to be asked to do something because you are male.Wonder what would happen if you ask a female staff member to get you some coffee because she is female?

nursemike, ASN, RN · Feb 19, 2008

Get used to lifting in normal heathcare setting.My guess is 1/4 of pts. are >300?It's ok for the the assignment maker(usually female)to give you the larger pts.You'll be freq.relied upon to help get obese pts.back to bed,help ''boost''in bed etc.Just the way it is.Refuse?,and possibly be subject to negative feedback.It's o.k. to be asked to do something because you are male.Wonder what would happen if you ask a female staff member to get you some coffee because she is female?

I'd probably be asking another female staff member if she knew how I could get coffee stains out of my uniform.

It isn't at all the same thing. Physical strength is a strength. Knowledge is a strength. Experience is a strength. The nurse who asks me to help boost a patient tonight may be the one who does an "impossible" IV for me tomorrow. The aide who needs me to help with a bath may be the one who gets an extra set of vitals I ask for without sighing, or who keeps my other patients safe, dry, and comfortable while I'm rushing around passing meds. It's about teamwork, and if I'm on my way to get some coffee, I'll ask the nurse charting next to me if she wants me to bring her a cup, too. And vice versa.

PS Most of my co-workers are female. I rarely, if ever, get through a shift without asking one or more of them to help me reposition a patient.

baldee · Feb 20, 2008

nursemike, you miss the point completely. CEFHMF has 17 years experience, not 2. He speaks for a full career's worth of empirical evidence. Of course females will get out of doing manual labor like any man will too. Females just expect males to strain themselves, all just to make the female who assigned the male look efficient and smart.

Its easy. JUST SAY NO! I work Security Guard until can get better qualified or a better job. I get more money standing or sitting like a cow in a field, than many CNA's wiping hineys and (men) bathing 400 lb men/350 lb women. Just because the person assigning you is a CNA or RN does not mean anything. I am a world class ergonomic engineer, and understand the static loads, dynamic effects, repetitive trauma disorders, ergonomic positioning, anatomical differences in populations, and effects of doing jobs improperly.

If it takes 4 female nurses to do it, don't cut your career down to a third because you think everyone is looking out for your best interest. If you think trivial duties with minimum skill make a fair trade, I'd start your learning curve on the trivial duties before you dislocate your only lower back you have. But that's just me: I'm not stupid :yeah:

anonymurse · Feb 20, 2008

I determined always to get help and did. Then one day, a huge pt asked help getting to the BSC and back. OK, I thought, breaking my resolution, that's do-able, given her strength and the task. Things were fine until I had her halfway up and she said she couldn't reach to wipe and I tried to wipe her holding her in mid-air. Knocked my back out of whack for several months, but at least it wasn't permanent, so far as I know. Now I always get help based on weight alone without figuring in the pt's strength or the ease of the apparent task at hand. I have one back and no spares. A heavy patient on the floor isn't an emergency. They can't fall from the floor, so they're safe. And if they're coding, they're already on a firm, flat surface. My family's survival rides on this back of mine. I don't have the right to risk it for nothing when I can get help or a lift.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Feb 20, 2008

nursemike, you miss the point completely. CEFHMF has 17 years experience, not 2. He speaks for a full career's worth of empirical evidence. Of course females will get out of doing manual labor like any man will too. Females just expect males to strain themselves, all just to make the female who assigned the male look efficient and smart.
Its easy. JUST SAY NO! I work Security Guard until can get better qualified or a better job. I get more money standing or sitting like a cow in a field, than many CNA's wiping hineys and (men) bathing 400 lb men/350 lb women. Just because the person assigning you is a CNA or RN does not mean anything. I am a world class ergonomic engineer, and understand the static loads, dynamic effects, repetitive trauma disorders, ergonomic positioning, anatomical differences in populations, and effects of doing jobs improperly.
If it takes 4 female nurses to do it, don't cut your career down to a third because you think everyone is looking out for your best interest. If you think trivial duties with minimum skill make a fair trade, I'd start your learning curve on the trivial duties before you dislocate your only lower back you have. But that's just me: I'm not stupid

I don't believe I called anyone stupid, and if I appeared to imply that, it surely wasn't intended. I stand by my assertion that asking someone to assist with lifting because they are strong is different than asking someone to fetch coffee because they're female.

I'm not stupid, either, by the way, and before becoming a nurse (going on three years, now) I spent seven doing pt transports: moving people from beds to carts, beds to wheelchairs, ambulating unsteady patients, and from time to time assisting with baths or other treatments that required some muscle. I was trained by a Physical Therapist who was about 5'0" and weighed maybe 95 lbs. Learned right away that technique counts more than muscles--and a big part of technique is getting enough people to do the job safely. The nursing process applies as much to lifting as any other task: it begins with assessment.

I suppose there are environments where undue advantage is taken of male nurses. I happen to work in one where we all tend to lend our respective strengths and help each other. That's the sort of environment I prefer. I am not remotely suggesting that one male ought to do the work of four females, or even two females, but I'll quit this field and never look back before I "JUST SAY NO" to a coworker who needs my help.

Eh, but then, I'm just a nurse. What do I know?

lpnornot · Jul 4, 2008

This is scary stuff I'm reading.

I really wish i Could move to the UK or any other of the 8 european countries where humane no-lift policies supposed to be in place. and I have a EU passport but I'm settled in the US right now. Have no choice.

Did I actually read that if you lift any weight properly you can't hurt yourself!!!!!!!!! Are they actulaly teaching that in Nursing school!!!!???? Check out what CBC, OSHA, American Vets and Amer Nurses Assoc say about safe lifining. No more than 35lbs of a pt can be lifted with out damage to the spine!!! Actually ANA says no manual lifitng. You won't feel the pain until the damage is done. It is damngerous for the patinet too. Mechanical devices all the way. Getting someone to help you is not hte answwer if the weight is still too much .

These posts really scare me. I did one semester of RN. drpped out, too intense. Love pt interaction. thingking of LPN but prob not if this what i will come across-archaic dangerous inhumane lifting policies that are so damaging to caregiver and to patient. i'll go for a lab career I guess, sad to say.

lpnornot · Jul 4, 2008

Sorry ...you the damage is done to the spine beore the pain comes.

lpnornot · Jul 4, 2008

Ive always been a lifter and a mover
Now when things do hurt a bit I dont recover as fast as I used to, called getting older.

Depending on the weights you have been lifting, if they were more than 35lbs, I think I'd call it unsafe inhumane pt handling and so would CBC, ANA, Amer vets and OSHA but its still being done in the US.

You could have already damaged your spine permanently even before the pain set in. Check out what these organ have to say about it. Its scary.

lpnornot · Jul 4, 2008

just wondering what kind of lifting where you doing? like lifting patient up in bed? lifting a patient up out of a wheel chair to a bed? and if you were using a Transfer belt? transfer belts make it easier and having a shoulder width base for how far apart your feet are helps..you want to bend ur knees and use your leg muscles more...lifing patients and not hurting your self at the same time is all about having good body mechanics....another way to counter this is to do some lifting on your own time....at a gym...forcus on back excerces to make your back stronger.....anway i am apsiring to be a Rn...and can only assume they do their fair share of lifting patients...hope some of this was helpful info to you

the old adage that any weight can be lifted if done wiht good body mechanics!!!! 35lbs is the safe limit. ANA says no lifting at all.

Get advice from a PT nowadays about what to strengthen. I believe you have to focus on legs and abdominals. Your back is not supposed to be doing any of the work. weak muscles in the back. the spine has to be protected by strong abs and legs. Legs do the lifting. But still only 35lbs maximum!! or else there will be damage. that's why there are no-lifitn countries and some states. They rely on mechanical devices and other aids to move pts safely. when are we going to catch up here in the US!!!