If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.
Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.
Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.
The arguement about the Constition, what it says, allows, blah blah,blah, is ridulous. It was written to be fluid enough to allow for changes in society, that could not have been anticipated 200 + years ago. Health care was not even in the picture 200 years ago.
The constitution can be ammended and offers a process to do it. Pass an ammendment and have the states ratify it and we will have any right that we the people agree is important. But to circumvent the established process because it is felt to be for the good of society is not what our founders intended. That's what tyrants do.
I am certainly against universal health care for many, many reasons. MOSTLY, because, when you do the research , you see that it is not working in other countries where the tax rate is astronomical. To call me not compassionate, uncaring and selfish is ridiculous. We simply do not have the money to pay for everyone's health care. I live in a small town with THOUSANDS of illegal Hispanics and they get free health care. THEY GET FREE HEALTHCARE AT THE ER!! They are never turned down. It is amazing, how I, as a school nurse am able to get recourses for things the underpriviledged students in our school need, such as glasses, dental care, etc. Obamacare was forced down our throats behind closed doors and even the Democrats did not know what they were passing. How awful is that? I remember Perlosi standing before the mic saying we need to pass it before we read it! And then to pay for it, the dollars were stolen from Social Security!!! We all need to wake up!
here is a list of things that many view as a right, yet are not explicitly in the constitution. Our nation is now much more than the document itself, but years of court decisions, policy, and many monumental federal and state laws that contribute to where we are as a nation today. The constitution lays the foundation, but it is not the authority it was when we started, and i doubt it ever will be again. There are many bad things and good things that could be said about this.
Why does the law MAKE me have insurance on my CAR ? Or make me wear seatbelts? Isnt that unconstitutional as well?
Great point but probably mute in a forum such as this as most people...just like they do with religion...love to pick and choose what to argue about and what is "correct" in their eyes...just like the person who started this thread...so any broad...societal consensus on any of these issues gets lost in a conundrum of self righteous BS. Any idiot can pick up a thesaurus and a dictionary and extrapolate out from any word/definition (infinity) building upon each layer of interpretation until they find a meaning that fits their world view...its been done before just look at the bible...Dr. Suess couldn't have written a better fairy tale. The constitution as it relates to the healthcare argument is along those lines as well...
I am certainly against universal health care for many, many reasons. MOSTLY, because, when you do the research , you see that it is not working in other countries where the tax rate is astronomical. To call me not compassionate, uncaring and selfish is ridiculous. We simply do not have the money to pay for everyone's health care. I live in a small town with THOUSANDS of illegal Hispanics and they get free health care. THEY GET FREE HEALTHCARE AT THE ER!! They are never turned down. It is amazing, how I, as a school nurse am able to get recourses for things the underpriviledged students in our school need, such as glasses, dental care, etc. Obamacare was forced down our throats behind closed doors and even the Democrats did not know what they were passing. How awful is that? I remember Perlosi standing before the mic saying we need to pass it before we read it! And then to pay for it, the dollars were stolen from Social Security!!! We all need to wake up!
Who do you think is paying for all of those illegal immigrants getting ER care right now? It's YOU, you are paying for there care through increased healthcare costs...they are passing the money that they lose on treating those folks on to the consumers who are actually paying their bills. Obamacare is a way to fix this. This is not socialized medicine...it's a opportunity for many people who would like health insurance to be able to purchase it at an affordable price, and for those who think they don't need it, to pay their fair share up front, because they WILL end up in the ER with unpaid bills that are going to be paid by us anyway.
Let's remember that this whole plan was Mit Romney's idea in the first place and the only reason why fiscal conservatives aren't embracing it wholeheartedly is because they don't want it to look like a success for the democrats. Middle class Americans are getting screwed out of a real improvement to the current healthcare system because of partisan politics by a bunch of rich, greedy jerks who could care less about you.
Honestly, this isn't a perfect solution, but for many middle class families, it's an AWESOME thing. My husband has type I diabetes and if he loses his job under the current system, we won't be able to qualify for insurance...so then what? Somebody's got to pay for his insulin..wouldn't you rather us pay our fair share, or would you rather he just show up in the ER every time he needs a bolus (as Mit Romney, per his 60 minutes interview would have us do) and then you can pay for it through your increased healthcare costs. Or maybe he should just die since we aren't a part of the privileged class and instead of a high paying money-grabbing job, we chose to use our educations toward public service? What is your answer???
Who do you think is paying for all of those illegal immigrants getting ER care right now? It's YOU, you are paying for there care through increased healthcare costs...they are passing the money that they lose on treating those folks on to the consumers who are actually paying their bills. Obamacare is a way to fix this. This is not socialized medicine...it's a opportunity for many people who would like health insurance to be able to purchase it at an affordable price, and for those who think they don't need it, to pay their fair share up front, because they WILL end up in the ER with unpaid bills that are going to be paid by us anyway.
Let's remember that this whole plan was Mit Romney's idea in the first place and the only reason why fiscal conservatives aren't embracing it wholeheartedly is because they don't want it to look like a success for the democrats. Middle class Americans are getting screwed out of a real improvement to the current healthcare system because of partisan politics by a bunch of rich, greedy jerks who could care less about you.
Honestly, this isn't a perfect solution, but for many middle class families, it's an AWESOME thing. My husband has type I diabetes and if he loses his job under the current system, we won't be able to qualify for insurance...so then what? Somebody's got to pay for his insulin..wouldn't you rather us pay our fair share, or would you rather he just show up in the ER every time he needs a bolus (as Mit Romney, per his 60 minutes interview would have us do) and then you can pay for it through your increased healthcare costs. Or maybe he should just die since we aren't a part of the privileged class and instead of a high paying money-grabbing job, we chose to use our educations toward public service? What is your answer???
Gosh you make a great point(s)...but remember people are essentially scared and stupid(ignorant)...you know "herd" animals....xenophobia is so prevalent dare I call it bigotry??? Certain people will never be able to join in with a "rational" discussion...In the famous words of South Park..."They took our jobs..."
I got into this same rant on Facebook a while back. It was about how only the illegal, lazy, unemployed or people who scam the system need affordable healthcare. Here is my response...It's not just the unemployed or poor that can't afford health insurance, it's hard working full time employees as well. I work for a small company of about 100 employees and our insurance is outrageously expensive & not very good. It is several hundred dollars per pay period with a $2000 or $4000 deductibles with no copay so, a person will have to pay $400 a month and full price for a Dr/hospital visit if they were to get sick. Not many employees can afford this especially the unlicensed staff that don't make as much money as the nurses. Some employees basically work just for insurance and don't even bring home any money in their paychecks. I am lucky that I can get insurance thru my husbands employer. It is a shame that these hard working individuals can not afford a decent insurance so, many go without! The healthcare system in this country is broken! "Obamacare" may not be perfect but, at least it's a start. If you have good insurance yourselves its easy to discredit health care reform but, something had to be done. It's not just for people on welfare, the "lazy", jobless or "poor", it's for hard working Americans that aren't offered or can't afford decent healthcare, like some of my co workers and millions of other people out there. Imagine you were in the same situation...
I also have a friend that has a heart condition and can not get insurance because it is a pre existing condition and an expensive one. She has very good full time job and has no interest in getting any free insurance, she would just like to be able to have insurance and is very willing to pay for it. Thank goodness soon she will no longer be denied!
Great point but probably mute in a forum such as this as most people...just like they do with religion...love to pick and choose what to argue about and what is "correct" in their eyes...just like the person who started this thread...so any broad...societal consensus on any of these issues gets lost in a conundrum of self righteous BS. Any idiot can pick up a thesaurus and a dictionary and extrapolate out from any word/definition (infinity) building upon each layer of interpretation until they find a meaning that fits their world view...its been done before just look at the bible...Dr. Suess couldn't have written a better fairy tale. The constitution as it relates to the healthcare argument is along those lines as well...
i have always thought the who can get married issue is a moot point as well. I dont think we should have to ask the government if we want to get married. The idea of a marriage "license" is quite dumb. Some states are quite license trigger-happy, making one for everything they can think of.
I think in a civilized society we do have a duty to provide health care to all our citizens, regardless of ability to afford it. Otherwise we end up in a situation where we are valuing the human life and dignity of the privileged class over that of the poor, the elderly, children of poverty and disabled. Your class status should determine what kind of clothes you wear, car you drive, toys you buy, neighborhood you live in and vacations you take, but not your ability to have your medical needs taken care of.
By your argument--that we don't have a basic human right to anything not found in the natural world, anything that involves a human intervention-- we should only be entitled to eat anything we can wildcraft or hunt ourselves and we should be living in caves and wearing animal skins (of animals that we hunted ourselves, with a bow and arrow made of hand-ground stone....).
The constitution is not the final say on what a basic human right is...it was never meant to be. A document that is widely accepted by industrialized, civilized nations is the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 25 states that: "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control".
Great!!! But remember these folks that tout the constitution as the "ultimate word" seem to conveniently forget that it was essentially created by hypocrites for hypocrites that really never worked a hard day in their lives...remember...they had slaves to do it all for them...and women..oh yeah and children...I couldn't resist. So many have said...like the fact that school children are still forced to read outdated trash like the illiad or the odyssey...like that, the constitution must be updated/destroyed/recreated in the reality of our existence...not based on some archaic...disgusting worldview where only rich white men were in control...oh but wait...I think that is what we still have in this country???
i have always thought the who can get married issue is a moot point as well. I dont think we should have to ask the government if we want to get married. The idea of a marriage "license" is quite dumb. Some states are quite license trigger-happy, making one for everything they can think of.
I agree...but since there is really no separation of church and state at all anymore you are going to have religious idiocracy dictating what you can and cannot do in this "free" society...
I think healthcare should be a basic right. It is not fair that if a person does not have insurance and they are poor, their health is not important but if you have unlimited amounts of money like a certain presidential candidate, your health is a priority. It does say in the constitution that all men are created equal.
Yes..but sadly it really meant rich white men(and only those few that were writing it!)...don't ever forget that. That IS the context that it was written in...
Chisca, RN
745 Posts
The constitution can be ammended and offers a process to do it. Pass an ammendment and have the states ratify it and we will have any right that we the people agree is important. But to circumvent the established process because it is felt to be for the good of society is not what our founders intended. That's what tyrants do.