Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb

[Joe V]

Our health care system hurts everyone. Premiums are expensive and increasing every year. Doing nothing today will cost taxpayers 2-3 times more in the next few years.

Currently, the "public option" is the biggest obstacle when it comes to health care reform. Many believe that it will be the end of health care as we know it today - others think that it is long overdue.

Would you support a public health care option?

[ACU_RN]

Change in health care is needed, but not by mortgaging the future of our children. Those who support "universal health care" are not looking ahead to the cost of this endeavor.

Why is the government tackling this problem to begin with? Our government has its sticky fingers in nearly every aspect of our lives. I don't want higher taxes which will happen with universal health care, regardless of what the messiah says. I don't want the government anywhere close to health care. I want the government to do what its founders gave it permission to do, not a whole lot of anything. :)

[misswoosie]

Countries with UHC typically have better access to health care when sick than do Americans.

at http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Performance-Snapshots/International-Comparisons/International-Comparison--Access---Timeliness.aspx

and

at http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2007/May/Mirror--Mirror-on-the-Wall--An-International-Update-on-the-Comparative-Performance-of-American-Healt.aspx

The proposal is not going to allow employers to opt out of their responsibility to provide contributions to the cost of health care. IOW its going to become a "pay or play system." Either you provide a health care benefit package to your employees or you will pay a tax to purchase health care for your employees. No more free riding for Walmart.

I definitely support a public option!

Wow-don't know what sources they used for the data- but if the UK is first for quality of care then there is something seriously wrong. But then it all depends on what you use as your quality outcomes. I wouldn't call 15 patientsto 1 RN quality care, or mixed sex wards with no private rooms quality care, or only 2 toilets on the ward quality care, or waiting 8 weeks for a Knee replacement with constant pain that was non responsive to pain killers quality care. But then these are not part of the government set quality indicators, so no-one measures them and uses the data to score quality of care.

We have target associated with time spent in ER. If a patient is fit to go to a ward but the correct ward for their condition (ie stroke ward for a stroke patient) has no beds, then they will be sent to any ward that has a bed so that they don't breach the 4 hr target.

[misswoosie]

when i come to you in the ed and let you know that our new goverment healthcare that you are going to be forced to be a part of that everyone wants that the mri or ct or pet scan that might give the dr the info they need to save your life is not part of the goverment plan and you do not quilify for it.........sorry.

these days the only people who are going to refuse you the tests that you need are the private insurance companies. i have lived for years in a country with universal health care, and i can tell you the massive misinformation that is being disseminated about it here. under uhc, i never had to wait more than 1 day to see a gp, and you aren't "forced" into anything. i had my choice of physicians, and all my prescriptions were free. other countries have both a private and a public option. although everyone is covered under public healthcare, you can chose to have private insurance if you want (and it only costs a fraction of what it costs here and they aren't allowed to refuse coverage for anything).

if private insurance actually paid for healthcare instead of spending millions refusing to pay for care, then it might work. imagine if you went to a restaurant, ordered a full meal, paid for the meal before you received it, and then the waiter told you that the chef would only give you a salad, even though you had already paid for a steak dinner. would you go back to that restaurant? that is what private health insurance companies are doing now.

then if a restaurant opened that actually gave you all that you ordered and paid for, then the other restaurants would have to shape up or close down. that is uhc. and most physicians in uhc countries work both publicly and privately, so there isn't a difference in practitioner. what it would do is reduce the astronomical cost of healthcare by eliminating the "pay game", the doctor wants to get $100 for a procedure, so he charges the insurance co. $500 so that they will pay him his $100.

but that is by no means the case in all countires with uhc ie the uk.

[misswoosie]

I vote for single payer health Insurance--why should insurance corporations make great profits on our health care ?

It needs to be non profit. We spend twice as much per individual as other developed countries and get less and have so many people uninsured. We're paying ,in our premium's, for the uninsured and we,re paying for duplicate admin. cost for each and every insurance company AND we're paying for profits, for every bonus and all perks enjoyed by insurance executives. Health care should be available to every U.S. citizen and should never, never be for profit. I don't know why we've let it go on this long. Our elected representatives need to take the ins companies out of their pockets.

But even in a UHS those that work and pay contributions (ours are about 7% plus the employer pays about another 7%)

the people who pay are still paying for those who don't ie those who don't work or claim benefits, or work without paying tax and contributions becasue they don't declare the work and work for cash in hand.

There will always be compromises for a UHS and I think a large part of the spending in healthcare in the US goes on hospitals and state of the art technology-which can't be said for here in the UK.

Depends if people want to compromise on access to investigations and treatment, salaries for those who work in healthcare and hospital facilities, cleanliness and age. Of course you may end up with a far better system than ours, but remember, nurses in the US are among the best paid in the world.

[misswoosie]

The enemies of all those factions, are the uninsured people and others whose numbers have grown exponentially, and due to circumstances originating with banking and industrial giants' fraudulent activities, greater numbers of unemployed people are joining the crowd of needy health care consumers. That drives the cost of medical care skyward, as doctors won't care for them and their only recourse is delaying treatment until emergency room care becomes the only avenue of relief from stress related and other illnesses. The cost of care there, and in hospital is astronomical when multiplied by the huge numbers of people whose medical situations weren't prevented, discovered early enough, or treated successfully.

UHS is not some sort of Nirvana!

The UHS in the UK is still controlled by money. The government puts a certain amount of money in the pot, providers (GP practices,hospitals,public health providers) are given a "budget" and government set targets to meet. If the GP can get away with not referring you for investigations within secondary care (that he will have to pay for) and he doesn't have targets to meet for the type of condition you could have, then he will save his money.Then one day you will end up in ER, just like the person on medicaid.

If the medical business unit is over spent then they will not pay overtime or for agency staff to cover nursing sickness on the wards, but the chief exec still manages to get his 30% pay rise while everyone else gets 2.5%.Staff leave and are not replaced, especially near the end of the financial year, or they are replaced with a cheaper option.

The hospitals and the government then sit with billions that they have saved in their pockets, waiting for what? to spend it.

Hospital close because they cannot manage with the budget they have been given.

So yes we have healthcare for everyone, but to some degree everyone suffers because of the way it is run.

There is not an unlimited pot of money for any healthcare system-however it is run and whoever runs it.

[ACU_RN]

We are all assuming that health care is a right guaranteed to us, which it is not. I would ask that you please read the Constitution of the United States and see what the role of the federal government is supposed to be. Then look at the size of the current federal government and the power it wields.

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

here is my one experience with socialized medicine: While traveling in Sweden I got ill. I could treat the symptoms myself except there is virtually NO medication at the pharmacy w/out RX. That is why I always have to bring Tylenol, antiacids, allergy med from Walmart when I visit family in Sweden. SO I had to see MD. They did not want to see me because I ¨"probably had a virus". Finally, found one. Paid $250 in advance for "probable" blood work and visit. MD did not check my temp or BP, even after being told I felt feverish and had h/of HTN. Looked at me fully clothed from across the room and said I had a virus. No bloodwork, nasal swab and No meds. Was sick for a week with N/v, diarrhea, vertigo, awful headaches, chills and fever. The nausea was horrible. Finally my daughter arrived from states with meds! Meanwhile, granddaughter got hurt on trampoline. Called ER. Don't come they said. "Probably a sprain". We insisted the foot was turned wrong and at the least she needed something for pain. Finally convinced them. They took x-rays and taped it then called next day for more xrays. Growth plate may be damaged. She got crutches. No pain meds(age 8) even though she was screaming the firstnight. Thank God we had Walmart Tylenol on hand!!!

[ACU_RN]

here is my one experience with socialized medicine: While traveling in Sweden I got ill. I could treat the symptoms myself except there is virtually NO medication at the pharmacy w/out RX. That is why I always have to bring Tylenol, antiacids, allergy med from Walmart when I visit family in Sweden. SO I had to see MD. They did not want to see me because I ¨"probably had a virus". Finally, found one. Paid $250 in advance for "probable" blood work and visit. MD did not check my temp or BP, even after being told I felt feverish and had h/of HTN. Looked at me fully clothed from across the room and said I had a virus. No bloodwork, nasal swab and No meds. Was sick for a week with N/v, diarrhea, vertigo, awful headaches, chills and fever. The nausea was horrible. Finally my daughter arrived from states with meds! Meanwhile, granddaughter got hurt on trampoline. Called ER. Don't come they said. "Probably a sprain". We insisted the foot was turned wrong and at the least she needed something for pain. Finally convinced them. They took x-rays and taped it then called next day for more xrays. Growth plate may be damaged. She got crutches. No pain meds(age 8) even though she was screaming the firstnight. Thank God we had Walmart Tylenol on hand!!!

I'll throw in my ; went to Chile two years ago to visit family in Concepcion, Santiago and down south. (My father in law was born in Chile, all of his family are still there) His mother suffers from htn, dmII, osteoporosis, and recently fell and fx her hip. Instead of using the government run hospitals, my father in law and his siblings payed out of pocket to have her surgery and care done a private hospital. Why may you ask? Because the government run hospitals are a disaster.

Folks, the government can barely manage itself, let alone health care. Look at the IRS, medicare/medicaid, THE POSTAL SERVICE!!!!!! Government is never the answer to our problems, more than likely government is the problem.

[misswoosie]

I'll throw in my ; went to Chile two years ago to visit family in Concepcion, Santiago and down south. (My father in law was born in Chile, all of his family are still there) His mother suffers from htn, dmII, osteoporosis, and recently fell and fx her hip. Instead of using the government run hospitals, my father in law and his siblings payed out of pocket to have her surgery and care done a private hospital. Why may you ask? Because the government run hospitals are a disaster.

Folks, the government can barely manage itself, let alone health care. Look at the IRS, medicare/medicaid, THE POSTAL SERVICE!!!!!! Government is never the answer to our problems, more than likely government is the problem.

You think your postal service is bad-ours is much worse and costs 3 times as much!

I was a patient at the hospital where I worked 4 years ago. I had been going to GP 2-3 times a year for 3-4 years with bloating/cyclical back ache and altered bowel habit. Irritable bowel she said. Gradually getting worse, despite meds.

Thursday at work I developed sudden onset of sharp RIF pain-manageable.

Friday worse- appt to see GP-UTI (but urinalysis neg)-Rx antibiotics-sceptical

7 am Sat-ER- pain score 8 1 hour wait for analgaesia.

2 hour wait to see Doc. Poor history taken.Vomiting, but all obs ,blood results normal.

Junior Gynae Dr -you have a pelvic infection-started ABx.

Admit gynae-2 more IV morphine and oromorph overnight-pain duller across whole abdo.

Not reviewed by senior medic-sUNDAY nursing staff told me"we are a nurse led unit-you can go home"- Is said, but you haven't even done my obs since i came to the ward yesterday lunchtime.

asked to speak to middle grade Dr-she spared 10 mins.I asked for Abdo US. Come back on Tuesday for scan.

Tired, dull abdo pain,PV bleeding (not menstrual)

Scan showed 10cm mass behind uterus.

Admitted-seen by consultant-guarding and rebound pain.

Hb when they eventually checked bloods the next day had fallen from 14 to 8.5, WCC was 23 and CRP was 80.

WED evening to theater-3 hour op for ruptured ovarian cyst and necrotic ovary and wash out of peritonium.

Good job I asked for that scan,but what about soemone who didn't know to ask.And that was the care I got in the hospital where I worked as a Clinical Nurse Specialist.(I have not even begun to talk about the shocking lack of care in my first 12hrs post op)

Cyst was dermoid and contained hair and teeth, so had presumably been inc in size over the previous few years.

Now, I want to ask if in the US would you be able to sue for that ?

[misswoosie]

here is my one experience with socialized medicine: While traveling in Sweden I got ill. I could treat the symptoms myself except there is virtually NO medication at the pharmacy w/out RX. That is why I always have to bring Tylenol, antiacids, allergy med from Walmart when I visit family in Sweden. SO I had to see MD. They did not want to see me because I ¨"probably had a virus". Finally, found one. Paid $250 in advance for "probable" blood work and visit. MD did not check my temp or BP, even after being told I felt feverish and had h/of HTN. Looked at me fully clothed from across the room and said I had a virus. No bloodwork, nasal swab and No meds. Was sick for a week with N/v, diarrhea, vertigo, awful headaches, chills and fever. The nausea was horrible. Finally my daughter arrived from states with meds! Meanwhile, granddaughter got hurt on trampoline. Called ER. Don't come they said. "Probably a sprain". We insisted the foot was turned wrong and at the least she needed something for pain. Finally convinced them. They took x-rays and taped it then called next day for more xrays. Growth plate may be damaged. She got crutches. No pain meds(age 8) even though she was screaming the firstnight. Thank God we had Walmart Tylenol on hand!!!

And I think Sweden has one of the best UHS of all!

[lamazeteacher]

Change in health care is needed, but not by mortgaging the future of our children. Those who support "universal health care" are not looking ahead to the cost of this endeavor.

Why is the government tackling this problem to begin with? Our government has its sticky fingers in nearly every aspect of our lives. I don't want higher taxes which will happen with universal health care, regardless of what the messiah says. I don't want the government anywhere close to health care. I want the government to do what its founders gave it permission to do, not a whole lot of anything. :)

I enboldened words that I'd like to address in this reply. Your concern about the children's money is well intentioned, but not applicable to health care costs. When health insurance is tied to one's employment, that affects your salary (employers tack their costs for your premiums for health insurance to your salary, when setting that). So the amount your "insurance" will cost is already taken from you, and will come from the additional 5% taxed those who earn more than $250,000/year. In the "universal" plan, the enormous profits made by the health insurance companies whose many CEOs make obscene amounts, aren't added. The reason the employer hospitals, etc. like things this way, is because they can deduct your insurance premiums as a "business costs", from their profit. They also deduct bonuses for their administrators in the same way. You don't get to deduct anything! (Unless your medical costs exceed 7.5% of your income.) Most younger employees haven't high costs like that.

President Obama is "tackling this problem" because his mother became a victim of the current system before she died, and he realized that overblown profits of doctors, hospitals (even when they say they're non profit) and pharmaceutical and DME products are not in accord with what the founders of our country intended for its citizens and residents. He worked in South Chicago and observed the health needs of its people that went unheeded. We are paying much more for the health care of those who can't get early preventive care, and wind up being hospitalized and needing procedures that might have been avoided.

Think patients with DM who lose their lower extremities, due to avoidable infections turned gangrenous, procedures now done that aren't really necessary (I was scheduled for a knee replacement by a retiring orthopedic surgeon, when a knee band has stopped my knee pain for 10 years). The number of CABGs was ridiculous when surgeons competed to see how many vessels they could bypass, in little time, until the government agency stepped in and stopped that.

I certainly don't regard him as "the messiah", because he is working as hard as anyone else in his government, to make things happen that will benefit all of us. He wrote his own books while in school and shortly afterward, without any suggestion of having us regard him as anyone but a human being with goals other than lining his own bank account and pockets. I see him as trying to live with his family in the midst of a maelstrom of media, oppositional factions, and disbelievers.

Government has been and will continue to be close to your health care, (especially as we age). It required that you have immunizations before attending school. It demanded fair housing and employment practises, unemployment insurance, and retirement programs to keep you sheltered, fed and clothed when your own resources ran out. Past leaders of our country allowed inroads by fraudulent companies and health practitioners to rob the money set aside for older people's healthcare. Now the armed forces have soldiers whose job it is to make sure that contractors don't receive government contracts to repay favors (I met one young woman who gets competitive bids for those now, at the July 4 picnic to which I went).

President Kennedy said, "Think not of what your country can do for you.....". President Obama is thinking of what your country hears and sees that you need and deserve, to be healthy because you're part of it! Just because all of the things that are wrong with it haven't been corrected in his forst 6 months in office, is not a reason to think it won't happen. Patience is a virtue. Trust goes both ways.

[ACU_RN]

Also, Kennedy and Obama are worlds apart. Kennedy would be a Republican in today's political climate.