I don't know how to insert a poll tool, but here's my story. LTC, shift change, I went looking for the day nurse. She said "I'm in here!", so I entered the room. As soon as she pulled back the curtain (she had started and was doing CPR on a patient), she 'pushed' me towards the dead patient, and said "I have to go to the bathroom- and this lady needs CPR!". So, I started CPR myself, and had a CNA call 911. But the lady had been dead so long she was cold- I didn't have any time to evaluate what was going on. Yes, she died. Only time I've done CPR.
My brother was an RN, in Philly. Walking home, he came upon a man that had been shot, and the police were present. He noticed the man was not being attended to, so he ran under the yellow crime scene tape, determined that the fallen man was alive and bleeding out and needed CPR, and started CPR. The police told him to get back out of the scene, he told them "I'm a nurse- he needs CPR!". My brother was arrested for 'disorderly conduct' and 'disobeying the orders of a peace officer', and the man bled to death. The charges were dismissed, but my brother never got over that experience.
Wow. Tough crowd. It is possible to state a dissenting opinion with a tiny bit of compassion you know. Doesn't cost any more either.
I am interested in hearing more responses to the original question.
Was it tough for the OP's brother to witness what he saw? Absolutely. Did he do what he think was right? Yes. Does he mean that he was right, or that we need to side with the OP? No.
I'm not sure that any of the responses weren't compassionate. I didn't find them rude or condescending, either. I found that the OP's responses a little bit standoffish, seemingly because somebody didn't share the same mindset as her.
OP, I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I might have done the same thing in a similar situation (depending on the circumstances). I hope you are doing okay!!
In terms of CPR - haven't done it yet (knock on wood).
Results: can't remember a single one where it worked. Unless you count "worked" as ending up with a 90+ year old intubated with multiple rib fractures and going to MICU to die a slow death.
I've done CPR many times; I work in the ICU. It really depends on why the person is coding as to whether they'll make it or not. For example the numerous septic, MODS patients on high dose pressors who've been declining for days/ weeks usually don't make it. The lady I coded who had a AAA rupture.. Did not make it.
However, I have seen several that have. A therapeutic hypothermia pt who got stents in the cath lab coded in the ICU and made it. He did fine neurologically which was extremely rewarding. I remember because he came back the the ICU briefly but ended up doing fine and transferring out. It was nice to see him walking/ talking. The lady that I had who was talking to me and needed to go to the cath lab coded- we shocked her once and she came out of the vtach. I must say it was an extremely unique experience to explain to a pt that they just coded and have them awake and talking again. She ended up doing fine and transferring out.
Results: can't remember a single one where it worked. Unless you count "worked" as ending up with a 90+ year old intubated with multiple rib fractures and going to MICU to die a slow death.
^That's when you start to question quality of life...until 90 becomes the new 40...literally...especially health wise...
I've done CPR many times; I work in the ICU. It really depends on why the person is coding as to whether they'll make it or not. For example the numerous septic, MODS patients on high dose pressors who've been declining for days/ weeks usually don't make it. The lady I coded who had a AAA rupture.. Did not make it.
However, I have seen several that have. A therapeutic hypothermia pt who got stents in the cath lab coded in the ICU and made it. He did fine neurologically which was extremely rewarding. I remember because he came back the the ICU briefly but ended up doing fine and transferring out. It was nice to see him walking/ talking. The lady that I had who was talking to me and needed to go to the cath lab coded- we shocked her once and she came out of the vtach. I must say it was an extremely unique experience to explain to a pt that they just coded and have them awake and talking again. She ended up doing fine and transferring out.
^I recently was assigned a PICU pt who was on an oscillator, and the team coded her for a LONG time...she was just transferred out of our unit, responding at baseline.
CPR truly is relative to whoever survives successfully...you just don't know...
I wasnt aware that our scope of practice ended when we punched out. Your brother did exactly the right thing, the police being "in charge" notwithstanding.
If someone needs lifesaving care, we are trained to give it, and in many cases required by law to do so.
If you ask us for feedback, you should naturally expect feedback on your original comments as well. Your brother, though his intentions were good, interfered with a crime scene and (unknowingly) tampered with evidence despite being warned.
That aside, I've done CPR before on an infant. He didn't make it. But we had basically been resuscitating him for 1.5 hours before we got to that point and knew we had gotten to the inevitable.
I am opposed to the idea that people should be permitted to die so that evidence can be preserved. Not a comfy fit for any core nursing principle.
I am opposed to the idea that people should be permitted to die so that evidence can be preserved. Not a comfy fit for any core nursing principle.
It's not about evidence it's about a scene not being safe and putting yourself in danger along with others. It wasn't known if the injured person had a gun or other weapon. If the op's brother wasn't paying enough attention to notice the caution tape and cops, what else could he have missed.
If I'm on the street and see someone collapse you bet your butt I'm helping...if the scene is safe. I'm not willing to die to help a stranger. That's why we have cops, firefighters and paramedics who go into unsafe environments first.
It's not about evidence it's about a scene not being safe and putting yourself in danger along with others. It wasn't known if the injured person had a gun or other weapon. If the op's brother wasn't paying enough attention to notice the caution tape and cops, what else could he have missed.
If I'm on the street and see someone collapse you bet your butt I'm helping...if the scene is safe. I'm not willing to die to help a stranger. That's why we have cops, firefighters and paramedics who go into unsafe environments first.
Gotcha, I was referring to Calabria's comment about CPR possibly altering evidence in a crime scene.
Calabria, BSN, RN
118 Posts
Was it tough for the OP's brother to witness what he saw? Absolutely. Did he do what he think was right? Yes. Does he mean that he was right, or that we need to side with the OP? No.
I'm not sure that any of the responses weren't compassionate. I didn't find them rude or condescending, either. I found that the OP's responses a little bit standoffish, seemingly because somebody didn't share the same mindset as her.