Grades, Gre Scores, Experience, etc...

ThinkingAboutIt · Nov 6, 2003

Originally posted by DebraPugh
GPA 3.7 for BSN, 3.4 for MSN and GRE 1100. 9 years in busy ER's with lots of trauma, 2 years M/S ICU and 2 years PICU. I also got interviews and was turned down by a couple of programs before being accepted at Barry University, Yeah! I start in January 2004.
I think that how you present yourself during the interview goes long way as far as maturity and someone who can do graduate level work. Shadowing a CRNA for awhile definitely helps.

Hmmm, I don't understand a program turning down a candidate like you Debra, especially multiple programs. Your profile looks real good, GPA, experience, GRE, graduate degree. Can you share what you think or were told what else these programs wanted in a candidate. I am pretty puzzled by your case. What was the weakness in your profile?

Athlein · Nov 6, 2003

PLEASE sympathize with the striving and elaborate on this FYI II Athlein.....Thanks.

Believe me, I do sympathize with you! I had the good fortune of geographic flexibility and a competitive profile when I chose to pursue anesthesia, so I researched programs all over the country for the best fit for me. I was astounded by how difficult it could be to get straightforward, accurate information about a program.

What struck me at the time - and still confounds me today - is the VAST DIFFERENCES among anesthesia programs. Sure, the COA (Council on Accreditation for the AANA) makes certain that programs will meet core guidelines, but in truth, the structure, content, and quality of programs varies wildly. Programs can be front-loaded with curriculum (all classes, no clinicals for a year or so), integrated (classes + clinicals all the way), or hybrid. Some programs send you all over the place for clinical, others have a few hospitals. Some programs have human simulators, most do not have that technology. Some are based in hospitals or medical centers, others are university/college-based. Some programs have strong regionals and lines experience, others will only provide minimal exposure to CVL and PA line placement, nerve blocks, etc. It is crucial that you, the applicant, take the time to do the research into finding a program that fits your priorities.

This is why I repeatedly post that the best thing a prospective applicant can do in the admissions process is meet directly with program directors or their representatives. There is no "best" candidate for every anesthesia school in the country. What is important to some programs is completely irelevant to others. Believe me or believe me not, but it is true. This is especially pertinent in terms of clinical experience (length, quality, and type of unit), GRE/GPA, and even whether you are willing to move to accomodate a distant clinical assignment. I know current SRNAs with GRE scores under 1000 (math + verbal). I also know a couple of applicants with GRE scores in the 80th-90th percentile who have not been admitted. I know a few applicants with arrogance oozing out of every pore that were shown the door almost as fast as they entered. I also know one person who was so anxious that she shook the table as she answered questions. With that kind of stress during an interview, do you think the admissions committee will believe that she can perform with confidence in a clinical area when the crisis-moment occurs? Admission takes more than high GRE and GPA. Really. There are brilliant students in my class, just as there are those with average intellect. Some have to work harder than others, in reality, but we are all making it.

Let me be frank - in most instances, fair or unfair, the interview will be the deciding factor in whether you are accepted. What shows in an interview? You do: your attitude, determination, knowledge about the profession, financial/emotional/professional preparation for graduate study. You have already hurdled the first bar on your way to acceptance when you are selected for interview. Yet, far too many applicants spend too little time preparing for it. That lack of preparation (mentally, knowledge-wise, etc) is often painfully evident. Read some of my posts on the interview to get some more information about this topic.

Conversely, because it can be difficult to get detailed information about a program before you apply, the interview often becomes a fact-finding meeting from your perspective by necessity. What looks like a good fit for you on paper may turn out to be unworkable when you meet the faculty in person. In my case of "anesthesia applicant denial", I was so dismayed by my introduction to the program (location, buildings, staff, and the requirement for travel to clinical sites - and no, I won't disclose the program, because it doesn't matter. What didn't work at all for me might be fantastic for you) that I blew the interview. I couldn't imagine attending that program - and it showed.

Folks, there are over 80 programs of nurse anesthesia. I have never (and this is the honest truth) met anyone who truly wanted to be a CRNA - and that was willing to go to any lengths to accomplish that goal - that has not eventually secured a slot in an anesthesia program. l have met several nurses that have unsuccessfully applied to programs, and for reasons of family, finances, geographic restriction, etc, cannot continue to pursue their goals. I have also met several people who have taken extreme measures to secure a slot, including: taking a Kaplan GRE course (twice), moving across the country to attend school (this is not at all unusual), literally selling everything they could in order to afford tuition, spending two years taking prerequisites while working nights at a county hospital.

I really hope this helps. It is unfortunate that there is so much angst and anxiety surrounding the admissions process. But here is the take-home message:

Commitment to your goal, with the preparation, determination, and work ethic to make that goal come to fruition, is the surest path to success.

And one more thing. Once you get into school, remember that your attitude is key. You chose this path, and you can alter your plans any time. When you are tired of studying and burnt crispy by clinicals, do not let your attitude sour. Those with poor attitudes just make it miserable for the rest of us who are slogging through, too.

MICU RN · Nov 6, 2003

Athlein:

Awesome post, you summed it up very well.

While I only actually applied to one school and was accepted, I did research it thoroughly and also researched some other programs. Preparation seems to be the key. Along with decent stats, I had a 3.6 GPA undergrad and a 53 on the MAT.

And I do know a couple of people that scored so low on the MAT or GRE that it will be hard unless they really pick up their scores to get in, even with a high GPA. I am talking 30's for a MAT score, my school wanted at least a 50, which is about the 55 percentile for the population taking the test. If you are close they will make exceptions. I think they wanted at least a 1500 on the old GRE. However, there are many with high GRE and MAT scores, but you don't have to be brilliant to get in or succeed, I am living proof of that.

Although, I have not started my anesthesia classes, I have started my MSN classes, ( advanced pharm, advanced health assessment, health management, research I, and APN foundations) I can see why they want people who appear to be serious about school, while three of my classes are not hard, the pharm and assessment require plenty of work and cover a lot of volume. For example, assessment covers 8-10 chapters per test and the text is on par with the medical students advanced assessment text. The pharm. is suppose to be on par with what the dental and medical students take, but it very general, with know anesthesia focus. Next semester, it is physiology possibly with the medical students, although, I have heard they are thinking about not having us take it with the medical students anymore. Can't wait to find out(HA,HA).

cnmtocrna · Nov 6, 2003

Athlein, I really love your posts - they are cogent, thorough and informative and...well, this last one especially just made me feel better. Thank you, thank you, thank you......

DebraPugh · Nov 7, 2003

Dear thinking about it:

I was told by one school that my science classes were too old, 17 years although I had straight A's and the other school just told me that there were better qualified applicants. The secretary told me that there were over 800 applicants for 15 slots so it was super competitive, I guess. I did retake chemistry and biochemistry just for myself, but had current pharmacology and patho from my ARNP program. I just hadn't realized that I would have to move my family clear across the country from Washington state to Florida. If you really want something, you will make it happen.

Brenna's Dad · Nov 7, 2003

I think Athlein hit the nail on the head. Your CV may secure you an interview, but it's your interview that secures you the position.

My stats:

GPA 3.9

GRE 2020

MAT 80

9 years nursing; 2 med-surg, 7 various ICUs, traveler for almost four. (did long term assignments mostly)

CCRN

comfortablynumb · Nov 7, 2003

Dear ThinkingAboutIt,

I sent you a PM. Good Luck!

ThinkingAboutIt · Nov 7, 2003

I appreciate your additional information. My intention was not to pry but when I see someone with exceptional stats like yours and you got multiple rejections. It's nice to try to understand the process and obstacles. I guess Athlein's post was right on the money, all of the schools are different it depends on the admissions staff on what they want. I kind of bothers me that there are these "hidden factors" that I have to find out. It would be long road to take only to find out that I couldn't get there for because of something not stated but understood (except by me!)

Hey ComfortablyNumb I didn't get your PM.

malraymal · Nov 17, 2003

Thanxs everyone for all the feedback. I now have an ideal of how to approach getting into anesthesia school.

EmeraldNYL, BSN, RN · Jun 21, 2004

My stats:

Bio degree GPA 2.85

BSN degree 3.9

GRE 1510 (old test)

8 months experience as an RN (at time of acceptance) in the MRICU at a huge teaching hospital

Some continuing ed classes, TONS of science classes, and a member of Sigma Theta Tau and the AACN. Molecular biology/genetics research during my bio degree.

InterestedRN · Jun 28, 2004

GPA: 3.9

GRE: 1750 (before new revised test format)

Experience: 10 yrs RN, tele, CICU, Flight nursing

Certs: ACLS, PALS, NRP, TNCC, CCRN, FNATC, EMT-P

With the environment becoming more and more competitive, be as prepared as you can. However, please know that all the numbers and initials are not really what gets you into school. The interview is VERY important! Sell yourself, be honest, genuine, and excited. I think, that goes a lot further than all the other stuff!:rotfl:

bk2va03 · Dec 29, 2004

anymore?