Nurses are leading the way in getting the vaccine. As more and more people get vaccinated, we are closer to being able to return to a more normal life, protecting ourselves, our families and the economy.
Nurses as a group lead the way in getting vaccines. Although some still hesitate—particularly outpatient nurses—as a group, professional nurses continue to set an example of willingness to combat the epidemic by getting vaccinated themselves. Statistics are still being gathered but in March 2021, 64% of hospital nurses were already vaccinated. The effort to get that number to 100% is underway. How can we help our peers and our patients who hesitate about getting the vaccine?
Going the Extra Mile
Nurses have been heroes every step of the way. Nurse Vaccinator Jaquelyn Chartier stated in a New York Times article, “I saw on the news they were going to roll out these mass vaccination sites but they needed nurses because they were short. And I was, like, I gotta go. I gotta go help.” Her spirit echoes the voices and actions of so many nurses who have stepped up to the plate and gone the extra miles to help conquer this pandemic.
Working in health care, many of us have seen the worst of COVID: patients struggling to breathe, suffering a variety of maladies, and some even becoming “long haulers” finding themselves besieged by symptoms months after the disease should have packed up and left their bodies. Countering that are the 80% of people who have symptom-less or mild symptom infections of COVID-19 and recuperate uneventfully and quickly. The two extremes are hard to reconcile. We continue to have a lack of current science about what makes one person get acutely ill and another barely suffer a sneeze. Because of these disparities, we hear divided reports—everything from doomsday reports to a fantasy of denial. As nurses, we are sometimes stuck in between trying to educate people, help them understand, and lead by example.
Vaccine Risks vs. Deadly Virus Risks
The fact that vaccines have some degree of inherent risk is well-known and undisputed. But this risk must be weighed against the potentially much greater risk of severe illness from contracting this coronavirus. With a mortality of 1% (this number is still being determined), it is much deadlier than the flu (<0.1%), even after we have had over a year to develop strategies to treat it. All of us know of stories of young, healthy men and women becoming gravely ill, ending up on a ventilator and dying. Our stories in this country are numerous, but in other countries, the situation is becoming even direr. Globally, the pandemic has been devastating.
The risk of getting the vaccine is extremely small. Not getting the vaccine is also a calculated risk. It is important to understand this and to encourage our patients to consider that they are still taking a risk when they choose not to be vaccinated. The recent pause in the administration of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was due to blood clots in 6 persons out of 6.8 million (1/100th of the risk of getting struck by lightning).
Misinformation
Misinformation and outright lies about the vaccine are plentiful for those who are willing to read it and give it credence. The internet has an overabundance of bogus “information” about vaccines going into your DNA. “The truth is that the vaccines cannot modify anything in your embryo or your child.”
Miraculous Preparation for Such a Time as This
The scientific literature describing the development of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines with mRNA is fascinating and reads like something out of the future. The men and women scientists who were able to rapidly develop these vaccines for COVID-19 did not come upon this technology overnight. It had been in development for a number of years and was miraculously ready just when it was needed. According to associate scientist Katherine Calhoun, “Rarely do you work on something in the lab and go home and turn on your TV and see the top 10 headlines are about the thing that you were working on today.” The miraculous preparedness of the scientific community “For such a time as this” seems to have escaped our imaginations during the crisis of COVID-19. It may be time for us to step back and reflect on how fortunate we are that events in the cosmos came together to give us these tools to combat the infection.
Senior scientist Amy Barnes who is part of the development team for the Pfizer vaccine states: “This kind of reminds me of September 11th. It’s that same feeling of What were you doing at the time?”
Prevention - the Best Treatment
Prevention is the best treatment we have for COVID-19. Vaccines are our best hope for staying safe, keeping our families and patients safe, and preserving the economy. Like most viruses, it mutates and this one spreads aggressively. We have a short window of time to poke holes in its armor and then watch it crumble. If we work together, we can make it happen!
Specializes in Educator, COVID Paperwork Expert (self-taught).
11 hours ago, underpressure said:
She's NOT fearful or afraid as she already stated. And she absolutely does have the right to suggest to other people that "it's reasonable to be concerned". IT IS reasonable to be concerned!! The science and the data are minimal at best, and do NOT reflect long term effects. Period. This is indisputable.
Yes! This exact vaccine has NOT been used long term (unless you consider “long term” to be 15 months) by anyone’s definition. This type of vaccine, the technology, etc may have been in teaser hours & development for years, but this exact vaccine, for this exact illness, HAS.NOT. BEEN. STUDIED. LONG TERM. And that is what I tell people, along w/suggesting to them to check out the CDC, NIH, Dept of Health, & talk to their doctor. And FYI, there a number of doctors who are not recommending the vaccine.
Specializes in Educator, COVID Paperwork Expert (self-taught).
2 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Please encourage people to follow public health recommendations and get vaccinated.
I have & will continue to encourage people to do the research on the CDC, NIH, Health Dept & Phizer & Moderna (or whatever vaccine is available) websites, talk to their doctor and THEN make an informed decision—which I will respect.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, love2banurse89 said:
I have & will continue to encourage people to do the research on the CDC, NIH, Health Dept & Phizer & Moderna (or whatever vaccine is available) websites, talk to their doctor and THEN make an informed decision—which I will respect.
But in these threads you will maintain that it's reasonable to not vaccinate because you have concern about the vaccines' long term safety...regardless of the scientific and expert consensus. You'll agree with others that there's enough concern to justify avoiding vaccination...is that correct?
Specializes in Educator, COVID Paperwork Expert (self-taught).
1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:
But in these threads you will maintain that it's reasonable to not vaccinate because you have concern about the vaccines' long term safety...regardless of the scientific and expert consensus. You'll agree with others that there's enough concern to justify avoiding vaccination...is that correct?
Yes. And, I have and will continue to encourage people to do their own research … as stated above.
There is by no means a scientific and expert consensus on getting the vaccine.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
35 minutes ago, love2banurse89 said:
Yes. And, I have and will continue to encourage people to do their own research … as stated above.
There is by no means a scientific and expert consensus on getting the vaccine.
Yes there is concensus and that concensus is that all eligible Americans should vaccinate against this preventable disease unless there are specific contraindications. The vaccines are safe and effective, that is the expert concensus.
Specializes in Educator, COVID Paperwork Expert (self-taught).
8 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Yes there is concensus and that concensus is that all eligible Americans should vaccinate against this preventable disease unless there are specific contraindications. The vaccines are safe and effective, that is the expert concensus.
Guess I should have re-phrased it—“Not every doctor recommends the vaccine, and there is just not enough LONG TERM (there is some short term) evidence that it is safe &/or effective”. People should do their own research and make their own decision.
I get my statistics on Covid-19 cases and deaths primarily from ECDC (European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control) and Johns Hopkins. Are those the kind of sources that you label ”liberal MSM”?
22 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:
NotsurewhyyouareaskingmethisbutIwillansweranyway. I have always used Johns Hopkins as a reliable medical resource. That said the info is not infallible. For instance when covid first started it was Johns Hopkins that had a interactive map of cases and was widely used by news sources. How accurate that map may or may not have been was dependent on where they got their info. Some info came from the ECDC, WHO, CDC, and some from the Chinese gov. So you can see that some of the info they obtained may not have been accurate for any number of reasons including politicizing of the pandemic. As far as the ECDC I would say that you, as a European, are probably in a better place to judge the reliability of that org than I. Just like I am probably in a better place to judge the reliability of US sources than you.
The reason I asked was because another poster told me ”to get the facts, start by googling” to which you replied that you disagreed with that part because ”when using the actual Google search engine you will only see what Google big tech wants you to see”.
I use Google and when I type ”ECDC Covid” or ”Johns Hopkins Covid” it takes me exactly where I want to go. I was questioning your claim about Google and wanted to let you know that I have no problems finding accurate Covid data.
Since you went on to write about censoring, MSM and a liberal agenda I was curious which sources you consider trustworthy and whether the two sources I use are included under your liberal, MSM censorship umbrella…
I don’t understand this fixation on left and right. We are nurses. I would never search for epidemiological data on Fox or MSNBC. If a new treatment or medication is discovered for a disease in whatever specialty you work in, I assume you wouldn’t go to Newsmax or CNN to learn more about it? So why look for information about a pandemic or vaccines there? Sure I watch the news, but for work related topics, evidence-based research is my go-to.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
23 minutes ago, love2banurse89 said:
Guess I should have re-phrased it—“Not every doctor recommends the vaccine, and there is just not enough LONG TERM (there is some short term) evidence that it is safe &/or effective”. People should do their own research and make their own decision.
There's a problem when doctors and nurses hold beliefs or concerns which are unfounded and outside of expert concensus and then begin influencing the decision making of others with those beliefs. That's happening in this country right now in the middle of a deadly pandemic and you appear to be in support of that behavior which serves to endanger public health.
Which other vaccines have evidence of long term side effects? Why is that new standard suddenly a source for concern with the Covid vaccines...is it because of disinformation from a few people that is creating doubt and concern?
There's a problem when doctors and nurses hold beliefs or concerns which are unfounded and outside of expert concensus and then begin influencing the decision making of others with those beliefs. That's happening in this country right now in the middle of a deadly pandemic and you appear to be in support of that behavior which serves to endanger public health.
Which other vaccines have evidence of long term side effects? Why is that new standard suddenly a source for concern with the Covid vaccines...is it because of disinformation from a few people that is creating doubt and concern?
Which other vaccines have evidence of long term side effects? Why is that new standard suddenly a source for concern with the Covid vaccines...is it because of disinformation from a few people that is creating doubt and concern?
We're not talking about other vaccines. Vaccines that have been around for decades are not in question. ONLY the Covid vaccine. Please don't muddle the issue. The "source of concern" is that there is no LONG TERM safety evidence. Short term, maybe. Long term, zero. And how do you know it's "disinformation" ? (I'm so sick of that word)
1) Mygoalatthispointistoencouragepeopletolookatwhat’sreallyhappening, notjustlistentomainstreammedia, whoseobjectiveistospreadfear. In some places Covid cases are going up—BUT—hospitalizations & deaths are down. Our goal was never “no Covid deaths ever”, it was “flatten the curve so hospitals aren’t overwhelmed & we don’t run out of ICU beds or ventilators.” 2) Togetthefacts, startbygooglingyourarea& “ICUbedavailabilityandCovidcases” Here’s the link to thenChicago area, which I randomly chose. https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/sites/covid-19/home/latest-data.html
3) Studythegraphs. Lookathowthecases&deathsareDOWN. Look at how many ICU beds & ventilators are available (hint—plenty)
You can check out data for all the states here. 4) FortheentireUnitedStates, thelast14daysshowthatcasesareup94%, butdeathsareDOWN14%.ThereisAnaverageofjust250deaths/dayintheentireUnitedStates. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
maybe this is due to vaccinations, maybe we’re close to “herd immunity”, maybe it’s burning itself out. The point is it’s going DOWN. 5) I’mnotbasingmydecisiontogetvaccinatedonsomethingthatissimplynothappeningrightnow.
6) Despitethecontinuedhighpressuretogetvaccinated, itisafactthatthefirstvaccinewasgiveninMarchof2020. The “long-term” evidenceaboutthisvaccineisonly17-18monthsold. ThereisNOLONGTERMevidenceofANYTHING—positive or negative—about this EXPERIMENTAL vaccine that is only authorized for emergency use.
7) I have done a ton of research, and there are genuine concerns about potential long-term effects of the vaccine. My sources include the CDC, NIH, and the websites of the vaccine companies. Study the studies. Look at the actual numbers. Maybe these won’t turn out to be actual adverse reactions—but maybe they will. Your educated & informed decision was to get the vaccine…my educated & informed decision was not to.
I am so very tired of the debate about whether or not to get the vaccine. 8 ) I am so very tired of snarky remarks that imply I don’t care about my residents or others, or want to make others sick, if I choose not to get vaccinated. I am tired of being told that as an infection control nurse I should not think for myself but automatically get the vaccine. I am tired of the acknowledgement of the “right to make my own decisions” — unless I decide not to get vaccinated. I am so tired of the implication that vaccination is the one and only solution & anyone who doesn’t agree is somehow lesser or uninformed. It is not!
9) We all have access to the same information—it’s how deeply we choose to study it & the conclusions we draw from it—which are NOT just black & white. You know my reasoning, I know your reasoning. I’m done discussing it. I respect your decision. I respect MY decision. I encourage you to check out the links above & look at the original studies about the vaccines.
There so much to unpack here.. I’ve inserted numbers in your post to try to show what I’m responding to.
1)
I’m European and I don’t even know what ”main stream” media is supposed to be and what you call the ”other kind” of media? Reading posts here on AN it seems that mainstream media is media that isn’t conservative media? The label also appears to be used in what appears to be a derogatory manner (?) for media who do not encourage conspiracy theories?
Anyway, I too believe that people should look at what’s really happening. I’m a fan of reality and harbor a deep-seated aversion towards alternate realities (a.k.a. lies), conspiracy theories, and mis-/disinformation.
Why do you think the media is attempting to spread fear? What’s the objective? What does the media in your opinion stand to gain?
2)
I don’t need to Google the statistics for my city. I work in one of the major hospitals in my area (University hospital, 2 sites, 16,000 employees). We’ve received daily emails since March 2020 about the number of hospitalized Covid patients. This mornings email said that between our two hospitals we have six Covid patients. One ICU patient and five on regular Covid floors.
For the first and second waves/peaks of the pandemic (March/April 2020 and December 2020) the number of hspitalized patients and deaths mirrored the number of cases (with a couple of weeks time lag of course). For the third wave (February/March 2021), the number of cases reached the same level as the second wave but the number of deaths plateaued for the duration of the third wave and have been steadily decreasing since then. Right now we have days with zero deaths, single digits on others. (Population ~ 10 million, so the equivalent would be around 50-70 daily deaths in the U.S.).
We started vaccinating on December 27.
3)
There’s more to the world than the U.S. I’ve followed how this pandemic has evolved globally since March of last year. Yes, deaths are down in the U.S. and in most parts of Europe. But there are signs of increasing numbers of infections in several European countries and U.S. states. In Europe it’s mostly young adults who haven’t been vaccinated yet.
But have you looked at Tunisia lately? Or Paraguay? (Large parts of South America really). Or a number of countries around the world where very few people have had the chance to get vaccinated and Covid is exploding, causing oxygen shortages, they’re running out of ICU beds and hospital beds in general. People are dying in large numbers while spoilt rich people who could ******* bathe in the vaccines if they wanted to, turn them down for no good reason.
In case anyone is thinking why should I care about people suffering and dying in Tunisia or Paraguay.. Well, apart from the obvious part about hopefully being bothered by human beings suffering needlessly.. How does anyone think we got the Delta variant….? Do we really want to let this pandemic keep on festering on, and get some exciting Omega variant in the not too distant future……..?
The Delta variant found its way to your shores rather quickly. Other variants that might evolve, will do the same.
4)
You have vaccinated more than half your adult population. Imagine what would happen if you reached 80 or 90%…
5)
If your reason for not getting vaccinated now is that the number of cases and deaths are going down, what was your reason/excuse six months ago?
6)
We have ample evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has killed hundreds of thousands of people. (Actually in the millions globally).
Do you have a factual basis to suspect that serious vaccine side effects can/will be discovered years after the vaccine has been given? Vaccine reactions tend to come within days or weeks. Why would Covid vaccines be any different? What mechanism of action to you find plausible? 3.5 billion+ doses administered worldwide at this point in time. Lots and lots of data available.
7)
I think you need to provide the links that supports your claim. I have not read anything from the CDC or NIH or the vaccine manufacturers about the serious long-term side effects you’re talking about. At least I don’t think I have.. You didn’t specify what on earth you’re talking about so it’s hard to know. I know about both the very rare side effects for the viral vector vaccines and the mRNA ones, but they occur within weeks after vaccination. So what possible long-term risk/s are you talking about and can you guide us to your sources?
8 )
You are completely misrepresenting what posters are telling you. Youarenotbeingtoldtonotthinkforyourself! And when you say that it makes me wonder if you are prone to believing conspiracy theories? The reason I wonder is that hidden in your wording is the implication that only ”the sheeple” (yours truly et al. in your world ?) are the ones taking the vaccine, but that you are one of the free thinkers who sees through the lies about the nefarious vaccine. That attitude was kind of present in the post where you answered my question why you think that almost 100% of U.S. physicians get vaccinated, while many fewer nurses do. You speculated that perhaps nurses are more sceptical, have done more research on the vaccine and are better at resisting peer pressure than physicians. Really? ? Sorry, but no.
Regarding the part about wanting to make others sick. I don’t think that anyone has said that they think that you WANT to make others sick. I know I haven’t. But it is a fact that if you don’t choose to vaccinate, you are not doing all that you can to help bring this pandemic under control. You and millions like you, will help prolong the pandemic. I’ll ask you the same question about vaccines as I’ve asked other posters who express a similar point of view as you do.
Do you understand how vaccines and herd immunity works? Do you think ”the herd” is worth protecting?
You are not being told to not think for yourself. You are being told to start following the scientific evidence. That is my expectation of every healthcare and medical professional.
You do have the right to make your own decisions. But when you choose to not get vaccinated in the midst of a pandemic, your professional nursing judgement comes into question. At least in my opinion. You have the right to not take it, but you can’t dictate how other people will view your decision.
9)
I think you need to define what you mean by studying things ”deeply”. I try to keep abreast with all the new scientific evidence on both the virus and the vaccines. But the key phrase here is ”scientific evidence”. I don’t go to obscure internet sites and look for the latest batch of disinformation. I don’t go to VAERS and conclude that since 1,000 people have reported that x or y happened after they got a vaccine, and conclude that whatever happened to then hastobe a vaccine side effect.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
33 minutes ago, underpressure said:
Which other vaccines have evidence of long term side effects? Why is that new standard suddenly a source for concern with the Covid vaccines...is it because of disinformation from a few people that is creating doubt and concern?
We're not talking about other vaccines. Vaccines that have been around for decades are not in question. ONLY the Covid vaccine. Please don't muddle the issue. The "source of concern" is that there is no LONG TERM safety evidence. Short term, maybe. Long term, zero. And how do you know it's "disinformation" ? (I'm so sick of that word)
That's correct. You are suddenly concerned about long term effects from a vaccine when there is no documented long term issue with vaccinating against disease. You apparently are applying an entirely new requirement for vaccine evaluation. Can you clearly articulate why these vaccines might be more likely than other vaccines to cause long term harm?
I know that it's disinformation because it is a fringe opinion, not supported by sound science or the experts in the area. It's disinformation because it is intentional and not accidental behavior. It's also dangerous and results in unnecessary death and suffering.
love2banurse89, BSN, RN
59 Posts
Yes! This exact vaccine has NOT been used long term (unless you consider “long term” to be 15 months) by anyone’s definition. This type of vaccine, the technology, etc may have been in teaser hours & development for years, but this exact vaccine, for this exact illness, HAS.NOT. BEEN. STUDIED. LONG TERM. And that is what I tell people, along w/suggesting to them to check out the CDC, NIH, Dept of Health, & talk to their doctor. And FYI, there a number of doctors who are not recommending the vaccine.