1. Our facility went through our annual survey this week. I have been through 25 surveys in my career and this was by far the strangest. I had a surveyor ask me to interview a resident while he stood behind the privacy curtain to see if she told me the same things she told him. I really had a problem with this(violation of resident's rights). I was misquoted by a surveyor resulting in a D class 3 tag. The team that surveyed us were rude and condescending and just plain nasty. The supervisor stated to the DON, I love to intimidate your staff and see them sweat and cry. I posted a thread awhile back about surveyors and thank goodness Catsrule brought me back to reality, however, I really feel that the survey process is a way for us to provide better care to our residents, but at whose expense, when the staff all want to walk out? Do you all feel this surveyor was justified in his request? More to the story but just gave sordid details. Thanks

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    About bandaidexpert

    Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 325; Likes: 3
    MDS Coordinator, CWS


  3. by   aimeee
    I think that eavesdropping on a resident violates THEIR rights. And the team supervisor sounds like he has some psychiatric problems. The whole point of surveys is to try to ensure our elderly live in decent conditions, not to trip up the folks who are trying to provide care for them.

    Dawn, I think you would get more discussion on this thread in the geriatric nursing forum. Would you like me to move it for you?
    Last edit by aimeee on Jul 22, '02
  4. by   bandaidexpert
    Thank you, aimee. Yes, and maybe move it to nursing management too. We received our 2567 today and this survey team misquoted myself, the ADON, DON and Administrator. I was told today we have hired a lawyer. Thanks dawn
  5. by   Sleepyeyes
    I would've refused; I would've thought it was a "test question" because it was clearly a violation of resident rights.
  6. by   Catsrule16
    You had every right to refuse to do the interview. Your facility has the right to complain about that as well. Just for curiosity sake what was the F tag that was sited? If you can't get any satisfaction on the state level go to the regional level.

    If your facility is IDR-ing the citations (informal dispute resolution) make sure you have all your information correct. If someone heard the surveyor ask you to do this, get a notorized statement from that person. Did someone hear the team coordinator say that to the DON?

    Hate to admit it but they are some surveyors who get a kick out of intimidating others. I find I get more information by coming accross as someone who is there to help them by finding what they are doing wrong so they can fix it. Don't need to scare anyone. Just this week a facility was very complimentary of my team because we weren't intimidating.

    Example: Dialysis resident had an MD order to check Gortex graft, care planned to check the graft every shift for a thrill and bruit. No documentation since 5/6/02 that it had been done. By asking the facility why they thought I thought this was a problem they were able to see why it was a problem. It was cited. They felt like we were teaching as well as finding even though they knew it all along. We just jogged their memory.

    If you happen to come accross this situation, I recommend you refuse. If the surveyor needed information from the resident, he/she should have gotten it themself.

    Sorry you had a bad one bandaidexpert.
  7. by   night owl
    I'm with you Sleepyeyes, I would have flat out refused do to violations of res. rights! I've worked with people who clearly got a kick out of intimidating others and that alone is labeled as workplace mobbing/horizontal violence and a violation of your rights...Why is it allowed by some surveyors? It shouldn't be and IMO, they should not be on the team, period!:angryfire
  8. by   tex
    You probably have heard enough, to refuse having the surveyor stand behind the curtain. Since the government is making such a hugh push on residents rights, and your facility respects the rights already. Your facility needs to lodge a complaint on the manner this occurred. I am not a seasoned veteran r/t surveys, endured just 2 years worth. But this past survey, we were deficiency free, a first in +21 years. And this was the first time I was the MDS cordinator in chg. But I think the reason we were successful this year was we had a seasoned surveyor team. They didn't hassel us. They were actual living breathing humans. But we were ready emotionally as well as our paperwork was in order. If they had a "concern", we jumped on it. There is no assurence we will be lucky next year at all. I agree with other responses that it is a learning experience also, if we had not learned from our bad survey from the prior year, and made chgs we would of been cited. One surveyor found one of our whirlpool dirty, all it was residue, which we were already having special work done on it, she could of cited us, but she allowed us to correct it on the spot. Another luck of the draw, was the day they walked in our ADON was giving 3 inservices on Patient RIghts, what were the odds? Document q thing r/t statements the team made as exact as possible for your dispute......Good luck to you, I know that your facility will do well. Tex
  9. by   bandaidexpert
    Update: We are IDRing all tags but one. I found out today that one of the surveyors accused us of using vidoe camerasand audio devices to track where they were in the facility!!!! Do you believe that? My first response was 'they prescribe medication for this sort of thing". oh, well. We have hired us a "high priced attorney" and we are preparing for the ride of our life. The statements are coming in reams. Have you ever heard of giving a Federal D class III tag for a plate guard? The resident had an order, however, dietary "forgot" to include on tray and staff did not catch. Am I making too much of this? One surveyor asked me for a care plan, where I work, the DON reads and signs all CP's. I had to retrieve from file I give her to read. Care plan was due the day before he asked me for it. He accused me of completing the CP right before I gave it to him. Even called me a "liar". I ask you, will I ever get over this? I know we give very good care, I don't ever question that. Thanks for your feedback

  10. by   night owl
    You poor thing. You really went through h*ll with these people. I think I would have cried like Lucy Riccardo if one of them called me a liar! Keep giving the wonderful care you give to our know they love you for it.
  11. by   Tookie
    This mob has just made our accreditors very human
  12. by   tex
    unbelievable.........I can't imagine. would love to hear about the other crap they put all of you through. The scary part, it could happen to all of us. Were these seasoned surveyors? again, UNBELIEVABLE..............SO SORRY TEX
  13. by   bandaidexpert
    Update on our bad survey. To answer all questions, yes these were seasoned surveyors. Two of the team had been to our facility before. These two did not give us a hard time, we answered their questions and no citations came of it. This part you will love, they had a "trainee" with them who is the ex-DON of a local facility. My DON and I had a very interesting talk with her. She told us she was meeting with her supervisor to clarify the relationship between surveyor and provider. She also felt her co-workers were inappropriate. During the exit interview she had tears in her eyes. To clarify, we did not receive an F tag. A G for not reporting an adverse incident. Here in FL we have a "Quality Monitor", this is a person sent by CMS prior to survey to see how we are doing and provide assist in fixing anything that might be looked at. Our QM visited a week before survey and found that the incident was not adverse. So, how did the team find it adverse? We were given D tags on the most amazing things, resident had an order for adaptive equipment PRN. He was not using it during a meal, they sited us. We were sited for getting residents up too early!!!!! One out of ten residents interviewed stated she felt she was gotten up too early, this woman doesn't even know where she is! I also found out that our pharmacy consultant testified against one of the surveyors last month. Is this a mess or what? Oh well, we will submit POC as required. Then go on to IDR. tex, I was sited for not completing a Sig change on a resident. The team met and agreed he met criteria for sig change but this was not a permenant change as he receives frequent transfusions and prior to these transfusions goes through a temporary period of decreased cognition and weakness, thus increasing level of assist with ADL's. I documented all this!!!! I was still sited. The bad part about it is, I don't think we can IDR this one, because he met criteria. Thanks for all your support. I will keep you updated. P.S. I heard a rumor that the same team cannot re-survey if we IDR, does anyone know if this is true? dawn
  14. by   tex
    Getting cited for someone w/documentation not doing a S. Change, is something that they look very hard into. I know where you are coming from, we have a resident that fluctuates also and periodically has transfusions. What a ride for your facility and You. Tex