New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that?

Maisie · Jan 31, 2006

This proves that racism hurts everyone. There would be no need for affirmative action had there not been discrimination against racial minorities in the first place. A practise that continues to this day. I ask you, how many blacks, and other groups had to suffer for years. Affirmative action is seen as the only way to receive equality by many groups. This occurred because of the systematic discrimination in this country. Now a price is being paid by many who would never think of discrimination. In the end everyone pays. Keep in mind, affirmative action was not created for minorities. It was created for the people in power who did not want to hire anyone but people who looked like them. Fight the real enemy, the racist who started this whole thing. Get angry with them. Keep racism from continuing so that another generation does not have to live with unfairness. To this day, a black man with a degree has problems finding employment.

I disagree that less qualified people should be allowed in. If your grades,etc, are not good enough, programs should be started to rectify this. That may need to occur at the high school level if not earlier. It is not helpful to allow people in a program (black, white or other) if they do not qualify. This process is what brought us to this point today.

alexillytom · Jan 31, 2006

This proves that racism hurts everyone. There would be no need for affirmative action had there not been discrimination against racial minorities in the first place. A practise that continues to this day. I ask you, how many blacks, and other groups had to suffer for years. Affirmative action is seen as the only way to receive equality by many groups. This occurred because of the systematic discrimination in this country. Now a price is being paid by many who would never think of discrimination. In the end everyone pays. Keep in mind, affirmative action was not created for minorities. It was created for the people in power who did not want to hire anyone but people who looked like them. Fight the real enemy, the racist who started this whole thing. Get angry with them. Keep racism from continuing so that another generation does not have to live with unfairness. To this day, a black man with a degree has problems finding employment.
I disagree that less qualified people should be allowed in. If your grades,etc, are not good enough, programs should be started to rectify this. That may need to occur at the high school level if not earlier. It is not helpful to allow people in a program (black, white or other) if they do not qualify. This process is what brought us to this point today.

You are right. However, I'm still skeptical about all of these lowered standards for minorities. I'm a minority and I've never encountered such a thing. If anything, it always seemed like I had to be 3 times better and 10 times faster than my caucasion counterparts. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just not convinced it's as widespread as people are reporting.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jan 31, 2006

You are right. However, I'm still skeptical about all of these lowered standards for minorities. I'm a minority and I've never encountered such a thing. If anything, it always seemed like I had to be 3 times better and 10 times faster than my caucasion counterparts. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just not convinced it's as widespread as people are reporting.

I think it's area specific. It may not be a problem everywhere, but here, it's gotten beyond ridiculous.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2006

If you say it's there then I believe you. However, in my lifetime, and that of my parents, who I discussed this with, these standards have never been applied to them or me. Ever. Sometimes, I wish it were that easy.
As for my husband, yes you do have limited information, so you'll just have to take my word for it...or not. I'm not the girl who cried wolf. It doesn't feel very good to have to acknowledge such nasty attitudes in people.

Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.

Why get mean about it?

Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2006

My assumption is that these scholarships are race specific simply to combat the biases that have historically made the playing field somewhat uneven.

Historically, yes.

Now - I'm not so sure.

If this country is so racially biased, how do you explain the Kenyan and African doctors I've met that hold high faculty positions at UNC? Why do immigrants literally in some cases DIE to come here? (These are rhetorical questions - please take it as such.)

alexillytom · Jan 31, 2006

Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.
Why get mean about it?
Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.

Please don't make assumptions about my intent. At no time, was I being nasty. For the life of me, I can't figure out how you jumped to that conclusion. I simply agreed that you have limited information on my husband's situation, so YOU can't make a call about what happened. No, everything does not always have to be about race, but in this instance, it is.

As I said earlier, it also has to do with age.

Life is short, it would take too much energy to ever get you to see life through my eyes. Nor will I ever be able to see things from your perspective. I simply know what happens in MY life and I respect that your experiences are different.

You can't compare my situation to a few exceptions, ie - the African doctors at UNC, to try to validate your stance that discrimination against minorities isn't happening. It happens everyday. So does sexism, ageism, and every other ism out there. It's human nature. These systems were put in place to be checks and balances and black people are not the only ones reaping the somewhat limited benefits.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2006

Please don't make assumptions about my intent. At no time, was I being nasty. For the life of me, I can't figure out how you jumped to that conclusion. I simply agreed that you have limited information on my husband's situation, so YOU can't make a call about what happened. No, everything does not always have to be about race, but in this instance, it is.
As I said earlier, it also has to do with age.
Life is short, it would take too much energy to ever get you to see life through my eyes. Nor will I ever be able to see things from your perspective. I simply know what happens in MY life and I respect that your experiences are different.
You can't compare my situation to a few exceptions, ie - the African doctors at UNC, to try to validate your stance that discrimination against minorities isn't happening. It happens everyday. So does sexism, ageism, and every other ism out there. It's human nature. These systems were put in place to be checks and balances and black people are not the only ones reaping the somewhat limited benefits.

Of course I can compare - because "exceptions" - your word, not mine - prove that this country is not completely comprised of wanton racists.

I wouldn't call "isms" a "system" of "checks and balances".

Have you ever been told that your husband has not been promoted because of his race, or is it an assumption?

alexillytom · Jan 31, 2006

Of course I can compare - because "exceptions" - your word, not mine - prove that this country is not completely comprised of wanton racists.
I wouldn't call "isms" a "system" of "checks and balances".
Have you ever been told that your husband has not been promoted because of his race, or is it an assumption?

You and I are not going to get into a debate about MY experiences. For every Kenyan doctor you can show me, I can show you a few very deserving minorities who were shut out. Like Marie_LPN said, it must be regional. I have never said the country is completely compromised by wanton racists. Nor did I say "isms" are checks and balances. I said the SYSTEMS were put into place as checks and balances to combat the "isms". AGAIN, I don't cry wolf. Accusing someone of being racist and making decisions based on race is not something I would do unless I knew it to be true. Not only is it hurtful to be a victim of racism but it hurts to be labeled one if it's not true. The person in my husband's situation is what he is. By the way, yes my husband was told he wasn't going to be chosen because of his race and age. However, the person in charge didn't tell him, a few of his cronies did. When the selection was made, his superior felt the need to come back and make a dig about his being passed over. Can't take that to court can he? That would be considered hearsay.

Plagueis · Feb 1, 2006

While I am still don't like the idea of AA in admissions, I think it's odd that people assume that because of AA, African Americans have more advantages than whites in college admissions. I don't know about that. Whites, and white males in particular, have had a tremendous advantage in college admissions for centuries. Many colleges in the past did not admit blacks, so blacks don't have the legacy advantage (grandparents and parents who went to Yale, for instance) that whites have (and colleges have admitted they have preferences for legacies). Also, money issues play a role in college admissions, and if black families earn less than whites, then they may be less likely to consider a college education. (I really believe that we have get rid of the myth that families need to have the full four years of college tuition in their bank accounts at the end of high school in order for them to send their kids to college.) Also, even with AA, most elite colleges are still mostly white. According to the annual college guides published by some magazines, blacks only make up between 6 to 9 percent of the student body at schools, such as the Ivy Leagues, and other elite schools. This doesn't seem like that blacks are doing better than whites in college admissions to me.

Lambert5883 · Feb 1, 2006

I don't.
When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?
I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.

Seek and you shall find. To suggest that scholarships have not been, or are not, available to non-minorities truly highlights how uninformed you are.

I have no problem with the merit of your argument that AA is wrong because it inherently discriminates against some groups and, potentially, causes friction amongst various groups. I think we all can agree on this.

But if your argument is to suggest that all scholastically-based aid is limited only to minorities (in this unmistaken case, African Americans), I would ask that you search the subject so that perhaps you won't be as inclined to stereotype matters further.

You might find that different groups have been the recipients of aid as well, such as: Puerto Ricans, Greeks, Italians, and Swedes, just to name a few.

Lambert5883 · Feb 1, 2006

I think it's area specific. It may not be a problem everywhere, but here, it's gotten beyond ridiculous.

How so? Give some examples.

Lambert5883 · Feb 1, 2006

Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.
Why get mean about it?
Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.

Reread her post. She was referring to the "nasty" aspects of people's attitudes as applied and experienced in her immediate situation. It was not directed towards you.