Your boss insists on employees taking flu vaccine

[seenitallERnurse]

i just heard this last week and want to know what anyone else has heard.

the infection control person at my employer let us know that we will be expected to accept the flu vaccine for the upcoming 08-09 flu season.

i don't plan to accept the vaccine but i was incredulous that this edict would be passed around.

i believe we were warned that we would have to "sign a form of declination?":eek:--never heard of such a thing.

the justification for attempting to mandate such action was : "medicare will be lowering reimbursement for institutions that don't have a high-enough percentage of compliance."

has anyone else heard any of this yet?

[ktwlpn, LPN]

[quote=NRSKarenRN;3024092The short answer is because HCP influenza vaccination rates remain appallingly low, and unvaccinated HCP are infecting vulnerable patients with influenza. Fewer than 45% of HCP are immunized against influenza each year even though ACIP has urged annual influenza vaccination for HCP since 1981. Further, influenza transmission has been documented among patients in a variety of clinical settings, and infections have been linked to unvaccinated HCP. Clearly, we are doing our patients harm

/QUOTE]

I just don't understand how this can be proven-unless you are under quarantine influenza can be brought in by visitors and vendors,not just direct care staff....Does anyone know if the medicare regs that were mentioned are true? I know that this is true in regards to HAI.It will be interesting to see how if effects LTC.We all know what happens there whenever a URI or GI bug starts.

[seenitallERnurse]

"i just don't understand how this can be proven-unless you are under quarantine influenza can be brought in by visitors and vendors,not just direct care staff...."

you have echoed my thoughts. the infxn control staffer said " i know of a case . . ." implicating a physician or pa in passing flu to a pt under their care.

i'm just thinkin' ... "ok, maybe it came from the hcp or maybe, just maybe, it came from any number of visitors--who didn't know they had flu symptoms yet or they would have refrained from coming."

when these studies are carried out, why are hcp implicated as links? did the "studies" examine the non-professional staff as part of their data.? were ancillary staff also evaluated as to possibly being linked to passing a flu virus around? it seems nsg staff and docs are at fault, but there are any number of personnel that a pt can come in contact with throughout their day, and any employee could be coughing, sneezing, touching surfaces and passing along a germ. i just wonder how extensive such "studies" are when conclusions are disseminated to employees and the public.

and, yes, how does the working man find out what truth there is to challenges being received from medicare re: lowering reimbursement?

thank you, nrskarenrn, for your references. i appreciate all the responses. it seems a mixed bag--some plan to accept the vaccine; others will decline. i'll continue researching influenza vaccine effectiveness over various flu seasons. and i'll review your references for joint commission, etc. it figures they would impose in the area of employee compliance for vaccinations.

i'll keep researching. . . who knows, i might change my mind and go for it.

[big-chicken]

If you can decline the shot, you can also decline to sign a form. Recieving or not recieving a flu shot is your' personal business, and the hospital is not entitled to access your' personal health info. Even if you choose to get a flu shot, I would refuse to disclose this info to the hospital. I would simply state "this is an issue between me and my PCP". If I choose to get a shot, I'll get it from my PCP and that info will remain private.

Whether you believe in flu shots or not, these hospitals and other facilities need to learn that they cannot mandate compliance and cannot force you to disclose personal health info. Does anyone believe these initiatives will stop with flu shots? If they can get away with this, they can also force you to recieve any number of other vaccines.

Encouraging compliance and offering free shots is fine. It should stop right there. As far as the hospitals that are threatening to withold sick pay, they needs to be challenged, if necessary in court.

drive-south

[Indy, LPN, LVN]

What is this, a police state now?

Last year, we had to accept or decline in writing with a reason why.

They also said that if one doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu they will not be getting paid sick leave for it.

I declined.

I'd be asking if they had eliminated sick leave altogether, or would they be giving me a raise then since they don't pay for time off anymore? I might also, if feeling froggy, wonder aloud what my state's department of labor would have to say about that.

[Indy, LPN, LVN]

I also have to add, that while I won't allow my employer to try and blow smoke in my face... particularly when it sounds like it is something they shouldn't be doing... I do get the flu shot. I'll take a free vaccine, thanks, but this is because it does me good and I'm lazy, and usually overworked by the time it becomes available to me so it's convienent to get it from work.

I do support my coworkers who refuse to either get a shot or sign the form. Admin would get a lot farther with incentives than they would with silly threats like "no paid sick time for you" if you don't get a vaccine. I don't even know what incentives, at this point, I'm seeing read over the sheer balls behind such a threat. Because, you know, it's my PTO hours, and they're going to pay me whether they like it or not! Doesn't matter if I'm sick, go on vacation or just quit and demand my PTO time. It's mine and you don't mess with it.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

No sick leave for the flu? How are they going to know? I already resent after 3 days having to present a note from my MD if I'm sick (like I'm in school and need a note from my mommy.) But it will say I was sick, and am healthy enough to return to work. It will NOT say why I was there, because it's none of my employer's business if it was the flu or a bad UTI or I just had such a horrendous yeast infection that I couldn't come to work for a week without scratching my crotch in front of patients. In fact, if they demanded a reason, that last one is probably what I'd tell them. Will they deny my sick pay for that? And if so, what vaccination are they offering to prevent THAT?

[stunt]

Why are people objecting? Fear of reactions? Fear of side effects? Or is it that you don't like the idea of someone 'mandating' that you get a vaccine?

Just curious because people seem to be pretty strongly objecting to the idea.

[towntalker]

stunt, i have to agree with you, i never felt that the corporation was in a control mode when they offered the vaccines

i felt that this was for the protection of me and my family [by extension]

pehaps it is the older nurses who have in fact been in a controlling situation and are determined not to let anything like that happen again

what ever you can choose whether or not to take the vacine, i don't know what action they can give if you refuse, educate yourself on the ins and outs and make up your mind accordingly

i take them because i am a cheapo and if they are free i offer to take two

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

I think most people's issue (from what I've read here, anyway) is their making sound as if it's mandated, and threatening punishment if it's not received. That shouldn't be happening, and I don't think it is happening everywhere. It doesn't happen where I am. I get the flu vax yearly and am glad to do it but it's not anybody else's business unless I choose to inform them.

[stunt]

stunt, i have to agree with you, i never felt that the corporation was in a control mode when they offered the vaccines

i felt that this was for the protection of me and my family [by extension]

pehaps it is the older nurses who have in fact been in a controlling situation and are determined not to let anything like that happen again

what ever you can choose whether or not to take the vacine, i don't know what action they can give if you refuse, educate yourself on the ins and outs and make up your mind accordingly

i take them because i am a cheapo and if they are free i offer to take two

My thoughts exactly. The 911 service I'm with offers us flu shots for free. I get one every year, and I definitely will be getting one this time too. Hard to argue with free, and when I get the flu (and I mean the actual influenza, not some stomach virus), I feel so bad that I'd pay hundreds of dollars to feel better.

[BittyBabyGrower, MSN, RN]

I haven't gotten one in 2 years...why...because I am allergic to thimersol and our hospital doesn't carry it! You want me to get it, then get what I need. And the nasal one is not an option for anyone that works NICU....you have to be off work for I think it is 2 weeks until you are done shedding. And that isn't going to fly either.

Of course I haven't gotten the flu in 2 years also, lucky, probably, or it is because I survived the Hong Kong flu when I was a kid and have the immune system of a really healthy horse LOL

[wooh, BSN, RN]

My issue is the one time I got the flu vax, I felt horrendous. Sure, it wasn't the flu, I'm smart enough to know the flu vax doesn't give you the flu. But they were horrendous flu-like symptoms. For days. When I got the Tdap, I felt even more horrendous. (I thought I was going to have to leave work because I almost passed out twice that afternoon.) Every vax I've gotten in the last 10 years, I've felt soooo sick afterwards. But I haven't had the flu in 15 years. That's 15 years without the flu, 14 without the flu vax. I'd rather risk getting it once every 15 years than feel crappy for a few days every year.

I'm also sensitive to eggs, so I'd have to do the nasal route, which with the live virus, I imagine would make me feel even worse than typical vaccines do.

I also don't like the rush job that flu vaccines are under. There's no real time to test them for safety and efficacy due to them being reformulated every year. Sure, last year's was safe, but the rush to manufacture them, to me it's a recipe for disaster.

And I like to weigh the pros and cons of every drug I put in my body. Hep B vax is worth it to me. Flu vax is not.

I also resent the inference it's my fault that patients catch the flu because I don't get vaccinated. I'm a huge hand sanitizer advocate, I keep my badge and stethoscope wiped down, I don't sneeze and cough and breathe on my patients and I don't spit on their food trays. And like I said, I haven't had the flu in 15 years (knocking on wood.) So it's not ME that's spreading it. Acting like I'm the enemy that needs to be punished for not getting a flu vaccine just gets my hackles up and makes me want it even less.

I'm all for offering it. I'm all for incentives to get it. My workplace gives away t-shirts with it. I still don't want it. They're gonna have to come up with an incentive that counters how crappy I'll feel from it. Like money. I'm not sure what dollar amount would tip the scales, but a large amount might make me try the nasal vax. (Still won't risk the eggy injection though. Risk of anaphylaxis isn't worth any amount of money.) But threatening me makes me want it even less than I already do. And makes me feel less respected by my workplace.