Why hosp cannot pay nurses more, according to one CEO...

[st4304]

Yesterday, I had lunch (Yes! actually sat down and had lunch for a full 30-min!) with my manager, who had just returned from a 2-day manager's retreat at a luxury resort a 2-hour chartered bus ride away (where all the managers received optional massages and horseback riding at the hosp's expense, of course!). She was telling me about what the guest speakers' had to say when she mentioned this one speaker who just happened to be the CEO at a rival hospital and his topic of why hospitals cannot afford to pay nurses any more than they do. According to him, the reason people with a BS in Business make more money than people with a BS in Nursing is because people do not mind paying more for services rendered in the business world (he did not get specific re what these "services" were), but when it came to healthcare, people do not want to pay alot for nursing care. I told my manager that was stupid. When I go to a hospital for care, do I tell the hospital/ins co. how much to pay the nurses? When I get any kind of healthcare services, do I get to tell ANYBODY how much I am going to pay for that service? Hell, no! They tell me how much I owe, and if I don't pay it, I get turned over to a collection agency. I told her those kind of comments were a cop out of the hospital "powers-that-be" to blame the public for nursing's inadequate pay, -- blame that should be layed at the ins companies and hospitals own feet!

Any comments?

Sherri

[V SPN]

I basically agree with Charles S. Smith and ocankhe.

Recently I observed a local (excellent) physician inquiring as to who would be on the ICU to receive his patient before he performed his procedure.

The implication was that if he wasn't secure with the ICU staff, he would postpone the procedure.

Maybe all physicians do this anyway, I don't know, I'm still a student. (And I'm not slamming the ICU staff, the procedure was performed.)

The point is the procedure was done because the nurses where there to allow for it. Hence the nurses allowed the hospital to generate revenue. This is the key to moving up the finacial food chain.

Personally my plans are to hang out my own shingle after several years of experience.

[canna42]

Let me tell you about an interview I had 3 weeks ago. I work at a small country hospital (max40 beds). I interviewed at a hospital in a larger city with bed capacity 320 beds. The interviewer said they were higher IV certified LPNS because they were having difficulty getting RNs since travel nursing was taking many of them. She was already to sign papers till she inquired of my present salary. She gasped and said that is what they started experienced RNs at....HELLO CLUELESS!!!! No self respecting experienced RN would work at a hospital with starting pay of $14.50 that I get as an IV cert. LPN. If our small hospital can afford to pay us...I know the larger hosp can. Its a case of greed pure and simple. One of our local drs was hiring a nurse for his clinic. I had already heard from the grapevine what his pay was. He was "delighted" to be offerring a nurse $8.00/hr to work for him with no benefits. When he approached me.. I said please do not insult me by offerring me what you did so and so. I can work at wal-mart for more and a whole lot less responsibility and very good benefits. Which actually I have considered many times going to work at wal-mart..very good benefits and they treat their ppl very well. I would miss my patients though. Come to think of it...I do see a lot of them at the local wal-mart often ha ha.

[V SPN]

Questions; Is that hospital closing beds? Has that doctor reduced his hours or patient ‘load’?

Until the health care bureaucracy feels the costs of NOT compensating nurses adequately we’re toast...

When the health care bureaucracy discovers that nurses, who are in short supply, are required to generate capital. pay conditions and requirements will change, as is now happening.

If this shortage continues as predicted, expect a downsliding of requirements I.e. LPNs being allowed to do things, after certification, that was formally the province of RNs, (without having to go to college to get 6 humanities credits). This, in it self is not a bad thing. (I’m counting on LPNs to hold my hand for a while after I graduate.) The danger comes when all that is required to open a bed (make money) is that the employee can walk and talk.

One change I expect to happen is the acceptance of experienced, qualified nurses in the Reserves being able to obtain licensure in many, if not all, states. This is something they are not now able to do. The artificial exclusion of competent personnel from the civil labor pool is nuts and state legislators are bound to wake up to this sooner or later.

[Mijourney]

Hi. OMG, there are so many reasons that nurses are not receiving our due as far as compensation is concerned. I use to just think it was a chauvinist thing. But, I think that Charles hit on an important fact that those who control the money and power see us as a right. Think about all those police, firefighters, and rescue workers who were injured or lost their lives in NY. Will these workers, many who are lifelong committed and dedicated to their profession ever see a significant rise in their wage and pensions?

No, we in the helping professions (this includes those in frontline education, law enforcement, fire/rescue, military) are finally seen as necessary and even vital in the safety and security of our respective countries or states. Somehow, the powers that be have rationalized that because we commit or dedicate ourselves to the mission of these professions, we should be willing to settle for a life of minute by minute toil, pain, and pittance. Well, just let all members of the helping professions stop participating in the economy for even one day. How long do you think the economy will hold up?

[GMedic]

This isnt really the track yall were headed on, but if you think that yall have it bad....try being a paramedic! A.A.S RN's (2 year degree) get paid way more than us A.A.S Paramedics! Like mentioned before there is a HUGE need for nurses as well as paramedics, but when one station has a few extras lying around and the ED is slammed guess who lends a helping hand? US! AND to kick it off we get OUR crappy paramedic pay in the ED doing the exact same role as a RN, just with way less pay...so when you say there is a definate need for a pay raise...I say amen sista!

[TrudyRN]

Gee I used to try to go out of my way NOT to have lunch with my manager :)

Fair or not the statement that one BS/BA gets paid more than another is unfortunately true.

My daughter has a Media Arts Degree/Library Sciences and is a thesis away from the Masters degree. For those TWO degrees she has the potential of making a WHOLE 21k...yep that's what a library degree is worth.

Now a BS engineering degree starts higher than a teaching degree....we all see that.

This is what happens, not what is fair.

That CEO was talking through his....a....ooops HAT

Maybe that is HIS take on it. Now I wonder what the nurses would say about how much HE gets paid.

My last "raise" I got 7 CENTS/hr. (that was in 1998 I think)

He got 62,000 a year........hmmmmmm

I had to PAY for my lunches.

He has a private dining room with catered meals.

I go to the zoo for entertainment and drive my old minivan to get there.

He has an exclusive club membership and a Lexus to get there.

Worth/Value......bah humbug.

Smush the nurses underfoot is more like it.

Nurses save lives.

CEOs save.....themselves?

We let them do it to us. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Nurses Must Stand Up for Ourselves. No one is going to do it for us.

[TrudyRN]

Personally my plans are to hang out my own shingle after several years of experience.

Doing what?

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

We let them do it to us. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Nurses Must Stand Up for Ourselves. No one is going to do it for us.

Trudy, I disagree that "we did it to ourselves."

Sadly, we're the last ones to realize that we really are the employees; they are the employers.

In other words, as long as we work for them, they can continue to do whatever they want.

Since this thread was started in 2001, yes, it's still relevant--the raise I got last year was wasted on my health insurance costs as our hospital changed providers--but the fact of the matter is, because we are not our own employers, we are not really autonomous.

We work for them; they call the shots. The End.

[OC_An Khe]

The lack of knowledge about finances,capital, et al. in nursing is rampant. Very few nurses understand health care finances (as if anyone could fully understand this complex issue). It behooves all of us to learn more about this, and in particular about the place we work. Whether it be as an employee or independent contractor.

Remember in a capitalistic based economy ones product or sevices' value is based only on what someone is willing to pay for it. The corporate leaders in healthcare have raised RNs pay over the last decade significantly. If your instituition hasn't done that it was by their choice and the value they place on you. Why continue to work for a place that hasn't valued you as one previous poster has written since 1998?

In those areas of the country where RNs have voted with their feet and to some extent unionized the employers were forced to increase the value of RN compensation.

That said, everyone is lamenting the increase in health care and in particular the cost of health care insurance. In effect they are saying we don't value your services that much. So there is a kernal of truth in what the OP manager has said. Another (oversimplified) truth of any economic system is that one persons cost is another persons income. Icreasing/decreasing either one eventually inversely effects the other one.

[Grammie1]

Here's something that truly describes what management feels about the value of it's nurses, a hospital in our area issued a memo stating that staff using the elevators was wasting too much money. Yep, they really did pay some one to figure out how much one trip cost. Therefore, if they were not transporting a patient they would be fined and their pay docked. This was confirmed by 3 different nurses. This is not the way to encourage fittness or nursing staff that feel like they are anything other than peons.

[RunningWithScissors]

No matter how much education you have, if you have to put on a "uniform" to go to work, you won't be paid what you're worth!!!!!!!!

This applies to ALL professions.

[Rnandsoccermom]

I live in the Chicago area and less than 5 min from my house is a mid-sized community hospital in a nice, safe area, worked there about 14 years ago. Have a friend who is a manager there, offered me a job. They are having problems getting help because another area hospital gave an increase in pay and they lost staff due to this. Hourly rates are in the high 20's to low 30's for 20 year + experienced RN's.

I currently work at a for-profit LTAC. Bare bones staffing, crappy, cheap supplies, agency use can be high at times. I am working tonight at $40/hr base. I know what to expect and how deal with it. I honestly can't see taking a $10/hr pay cut at this point in my life. I've worked too hard and too long for that. Nursing is nursing wherever you go. Same people, same baloney, different place.

Sure I'd like to have it easier but I have three kids going to college in the next 5 years and $30/hr in an area with a hospital every 5 miles (or sometimes less) in a 30 mile radius ain't gonna cut it. Many places are offering shift bidding starting at $45/hr. Come to Chicago and work!