why do we settle for such low pay

renerian, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2002

Am I in the wrong line of work? Sheezze

renerian

jokieman31 · Sep 8, 2002

I doubt nurses in NY are making less than maids in NY.

Quite right. it is very silly to even make a comparison like this.

If you live in florida, then you should be comparing what you make to a maid working in florida. Not New York.

The Cost of Living is higher in new york, therefore maids, nurses, doctors, are all paid more. A maid making 5 bucks an hour in new york would have to commute from texas!

eesh.

mentioned that hotel maids were usually Mexican.

People pay for good help, this comment seems somewhat racist.

jokieman31 · Sep 8, 2002

The answer is simple the nurses pay dues to employ someone to do their bidding the only problem is that a lot of us don't think of the union officials as being our employees .We are the the one's paying their wages so we are the people who should be instructing them what their tasks are.So stand up instruct them tell them what to do or else sit on your hands and get "blue fingers"

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Some unions might only do this. Any good union will make sure that you are working in a facility where all health/safety standards are met, where breaks and lunches are MANDATORY, and of course they will always try to negotiate the highest pay possible.

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Someone else mentioned that Unions treat people like they are simply spokes in the wheel.

This sounds like something straight from the heart of a loyal middle management type person.

Unions were originally formed in this country to KEEP people from being treated like this. If your union does not, then it sucks and is pointless. Most Unions however DO fight for what is right.

They fight so hard in fact that some UPS drivers make more money than nurses do, and this is mostly because of the Union.

A good union will keep you from being wrongly fired because you voiced valid complaints to your boss. A good union will always make sure that health and safety standards are kept up to date.

Airline Pilots and workers also belong to unions, so is it a surprise that they make decent money? work in good conditions, and get their meal and bathroom breaks? Not really.

IT is this simple mentality (Well gee I worked in a union and it stank, so therefore, unions are horrible.)

It is the very fact that because nurses will not stand together, they have to put up with these "Conditions."

It's one of the same reasons why Native Americans had their land stolen out from underneath them. They were too busy fighting with each other when they should have been united against us. hehe.

But really, to the original poster, about maids making 18 bucks an hour. Why not go be a maid? I can guarantee you, if that maid is making 18 bucks an hour, then they are living in a hole because their studio apartment is running them 2000 a month.

bestblondRN · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by nell

I'm happy for you that you are so special.

Thinking about the nurses in my unit that would be the "negotiating type": they are the ones who think they are so great (and manage to convince the manager how great they are too...), but are a pain to follow.

Then I think about the ones who are real assets and MOST of them do not have a bargaining bone in their bodies - they're just great nurses who work hard and have the patients' best interests at heart.

Through our clinical ladder, if we think we're special, we can apply for a higher classification and the increased salary that goes with it. I am certainly not special in the same way that most of my fellow CNIIs are - I don't intubate, teach classes or put in PICC lines, but our clinical ladder is flexible and accomodates a wide range of talents.

Maybe it's just 'cause I'm a Libra, but I like the level playing field and fairness that our own little union affords us. [/quote
Nell.....gotta' disagree with you on a few points. Negotiation skills are vastly different from being able to manipulate a manager, and making peers "eat their shorts". I, too, have worked with people who have done whatever they had to do to climb the ladder or get special favor from the manager--this is NOT negotiation.
Negotiation is the "deliberation which takes place between the parties touching a proposed agreement." In other words, a means of coming to a mutually acceptable decision. I have to support James in his efforts to be a self-employed nurse--he has a skill set and he is selling his skills for a certain amount of money to places that require his services. Does that detract from his abilities as a RN? Of course not! Think about it--he probably has to work harder than those of us employed by a hospital to complete his clinical competencies, annual requirements, and such. He also has to be completely self-insured. All he has done is taken the middleman out of the equation and contracts directly with the hospitals he works with.
There are many professions where people are independent consultants or independent contractors, and nursing is just way into the dark ages on this one. Unions are a thing of the past 2 centuries, and honestly, negotiate salaries and benefits the same way we could individually if we wanted to do that. If we want to promote ourselves as a profession, this is only one of many ways it could happen. Think about what would happen if 25% of the RNs in your hospital quit at the same time and couldn't be replaced except by agency at $80-100 per hour (this is what is charged to the hospital in many major cities). Do you think your hospital would wake up and take notice if that same 25% said they'd come back to work as self-employed RNs who are self-insured for a higher hourly rate and for a defined period of time? I think they might, although it's a very foreign concept in this profession. I don't think the time has ever been better for RNs who want to become entrepreneurs--the shortage is profound in many areas, and the costs to hospitals to insure and provide education and benefits to a single RN is staggering. Your benefits alone run roughly 40% of your salary.
Nell, I don't think James thinks he's any better or more special than the rest of us--he's simply found something that works for him and allows him freedom to charge what he feels his skills are worth, and to be able to contract with whom he chooses. I think it's great that he has found a way to get nursing to work for him as well as working for nursing!

renerian, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2002

Let me give my two cents on unions. I was a teamster member for five years. I put up with crappy wages...........a little over $8.00 per hour and this was only in 1984-the wages have not gone up there much as they are only up to $10.00 per hour. OUr insurance sucked, I worked with all men except one other woman and put up with so much sexual harrasement it was not funny. I tried to persue legal action but none of the men I worked with would admit they saw the harrassment so it was my word against theirs-got no where. I paid big premiums and got nothing out of it............I would never join another union.

Just my two cents and I am sure this will wind people up,

renerian

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2002

howdy yall

from deep in the heat of texas

Nicely put bestblond RN

doo wah ditty

bestblondRN · Sep 8, 2002

thank you Tom! :kiss

wolfox · Sep 9, 2002

Add to list of charges to patient:

$10.00 per step for every item that the patient/family member "needs" (extra pillow, magazine, pen, phone book, juice, etc....)

This could really add up for the patient who denies that they need anything when you are in the room, then puts on the call light minutes later and says "I need a nurse!" on the intercom, then when you rush down to their room they announce that they need some item that an aide could have brought from the nurses' station, then when you bring that item, they come up with something else that they "need"-then look annoyed if you tell them it may be 30 minutes or an hour before you have time to bring them that phone book because you are involved in patient care!!!

sjoe · Sep 9, 2002

renerian: What if your next nursing job takes you to a closed shop where you either join the union or you don't work there? And what if your present shop becomes a closed shop?

(If memory serves, the "Right to Work" proposal (outlawing closed shops) was not passed by the voters of Ohio, though that was some years ago and things may have changed since then.)

By the way, the hotel maid median wage in NYC is $12.58.

salve#1 · Sep 21, 2002

Originally posted by lisamcrn
I think some opinions of why our pay is lower is becoming too complicated. Our profession is and has been one of the lasting noble ones. Arising thru hundreds of years, engulfing many facets, changes, offering many nonpayable benefits. Such as instant respect (deserved or not) for holding that title, an aura of knowledge and such. Our professions falls into the category of others including policeman, fireman, and teachers. While none of these professions have the best working conditions, scheduled breaks, time for meals, we have public support and an image. We are held to a high standards and sources of support and knowledge. I, personally, value this from holding the title RN.

I'd much rather take my much higher than average wage I make and have those benefits. And when I tire of that I will move on to something else. Our pay should be more for what we do, but at this time, it's not happening. Our managers and leaders have a long way to go to ensure a better realistic enviroment than we have now on a typical day, but things have improved from 30 years ago.

And currently I'm making a heck of a lot more than most cops, fireman, and teachers And teachers have much more education than I have with only an AA and ADN degree. How can most nurses expect to make high wages with only 1-4 years education. My dad's law degree took 7 years of his life....my career only 2.

Lisa

salve#1 · Sep 21, 2002

There are several reasons. First is that we will never be able to establish a nation wide walk out. I believe this to be the only way we will finally be heard. Small groups do nothing. In the negotiating tables things are expressed and we are told they will be looked into. Trust me, they aren't. The big reason-The folks who run the show are primarily male. Believe it or not people, we still live in a country with an incredible amount of sexism. So yes, it is abunch of man say, " oh, those woman will take what we give them and if it gets real bad we'll give them 2-3%" 2-3%? do I have to tell yah all what a joke that is! Try a 50-60% rase!

Some woman have moved into upper management, but once they get there they generally become queen bees:devil: The attitude of, "well, I got here so what do I care about those damn nurses." Its all about me,me,me and they don't care as long as they and the men running the show can fill their fat wallets!

After 3 short years I'm leaving this profession. I've gained 40 pounds and have been on anti deppresants for the worst I've ever felt in my life. And yes, trust me, the way ups could care less. They'll sleep well tonight in there big bedroom and big house with a nice bank account.

lisamct · Sep 21, 2002

HI,

Just to give you all a comparison.Im a learning disability nurse in the uk, Im on top increment E grade which is senior staff nurse level. I am in charge of my own unit, 8 clients all with severe learning and physical disabilities and challenging behaviours. My basis annual salary is £20,ooo, locally police officers recieve £26,ooo after 18 weeks training, teachers earn £23,ooo newly qualified and only work 30 hours perweek.